SE v21: Menu structure

[NZMark]

Hi All,

I am a bit disturbed by the new menu style in Solid Edge V21 (running under XP or Vista), i.e. the quasi-MS Office 2007 look.

Surprisingly, I didn't find any discussion (here or elsewhere) on this.

Is there anyway to set it back to the previous classic menus (e.g. V20)? I guess I'd even pay extra for that!

Many thanks, MT.

 

[swertel]

No there is not.

FYI it is not called v21, so you may get confused looks in the future by referring to it that way. It is SE with ST1 or v100.

The only work around with ST1 is to use the QAB (Quick action bar) and put all your favorite icons in that.

--Scott

http://wertel.eng.pro

 

[cadman1964]

Are you talking about ST? cause i don't think there's a V21 out there.

If it is ST like i think, your screwed, pardon my phrase. You can not go back to the V20 and before look. That's just one reason why we haven't switched yet

Solid Edge V20

 

[teebarr]

MT
This GUI is here to stay for the forseeable future and there is no option to revert to V20 GUI. It really does feel cumbersome at the start, but persevere and it is fine. Most/all of the issues reported by users re. GUI seemed to be addressed in ST2. This should be available Q3.

There has been alot of discussion on this issue when ST1 was first released - but when the GUI has changed so radically this should be no surprise. At this stage, those that have moved to ST1 last year are probably back up to full efficiency so the chat has died down. Certainly that is my experience and the GUI is no longer an issue.

Make sure to utilize the Quick Access Toolbar and spend time configuring the pathfinder etc. in terms of position and autohide.
Tony

 

[NZMark]

Hello there,

Thanks for the replies. Yes, indeed I mean "ST" - sorry for the blunder.

Nice to know there's no going back to my old menus! I should simply heed the words of the manufacturer (

http://www.plmworld.org/home/commun...documents/JW_SE_ST_Trad_UI_Presentation.pdf):

"MS Office 2007 UI Paradigm is Efficient & Easy to Learn...
Give it Time...2 weeks and you’ll never want to go back!"

Only I can't really afford 2 weeks right now...

BTW, I tried some third-party trial plug-ins for Office 2007 where the old menus are emulated: maybe someone will try to implement this for SE ST as well one day...

Regards, MT

 

[teebarr]

If you can't affort the time I would definitley advise waiting until you can. There definitely will be a productivity hit.
If things ease off, then take time to get through the pain barrier or just wait for ST2 which has a better implementation of the QAT.

I assume you have yet to dip your toe into Sync modelling - this is a whole new world. I have been using Sync alot this week for the development of a design at concept stage. Sync is fantastic for this type of work. Very hard to go back to Trad when you get used to it.
If you do this kind of work then it is well worth making the effort to learn how to use it. Just don't make the mistake of thinking it will work in a similar way to Trad - it doesn't and you will get frustrated.

Tony

 

[KENAT]

NZMark, there's a bunch of discussion about it on a couple of threads over the last year or so. Maybe try searching for ST or something, trust me, it has been discussed.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484

 

[donyoung]

I think it's still an issue but we ain't Don Quichote
Creating a document in Word or a spreadsheet in Excel
the maintool is the keyboard but that is not the case
in a CAD and that has not been recognized when switching
the GUI. BTW: the conversion of old to new has cost them
next to nothing because it's done more or less automati-
cally by the software. Don't expect too much from ST2 in
respect to the GUI -- there will be some window dressing
but not much more
I'm quite happy with V20 ...

dy

 

[teebarr]

The point with the ST2 GUI is that the things that were a bit clunky have been fixed. However, if you just don't like the new Ribbon GUI then there really isn't anything that can be fixed - it will always be wrong. I have seen no indication from those that have switched that the drop in productivity is anything but temporary.

From my point of view, just having Sync is worth the initial GUI pain. But I guess it depends on what sort of work you do.

Tony

 

[Gemnoc]

I've been using ST for the past couple months (but in traditional mode only, as I work only with sheetmetal these days). What I still find infuriating is the clicking from one tab to another and then back. What a waste of time.

And some icons are so hard to find!!! Took me a while to track the Style Manager. It's been buried in the View tab (of all things!!!), and given a microscopic icon showing two letters "A". Yeah, very intuitive indeed!!!!!

And while we're on the subject. Anyone knows how to check which update has been applied to ST? Previously you could tell it by going to the About Solid Edge menu. But it doesn't exist anymore!!!

What Autodesk did with AutoCAD is give access to the complete traditional menus by clicking the big round application button. No such luck with SE. And of course, AutoCAD allows you to revert to the classic interface.

OK enough ranting for now...

 

[donyoung]

Hi,

click the help button on the upper right, the about is at the
bottom of the help index.

BTW: very nice are also the functions on the Draw button where
each icon represents a pulldown with the default icon shown
(static) So you have to remember which additional function
is on which pulldown and then you have to open it select
the function and head on. What an ergonomic UI ...

dy

 

[teebarr]

I agree that some buttons are hard to find - I spent a looong time working out how to turn on Relationship Colours - it turned up in the Inspect tab.

As I understand it, the thinking was that the QAT would allow users to have access to commonly used buttons without flipping through tabs. However, the size if the icons and the inability to reorder meant that this didn't really fulfill the requirement for a customizable tool bar. ST2 looks like it has addressed these issues with the ability to reorder and apply separators. I am looking forward to this!
That said, my guess is you will still have to set up the QAT for each environment - this is a pain. It is a pity there isn't some sort of copy and paste for the toolbar.

As Don mentioned, some "common" sketch tools are in drop downs. It seems that ST2 will auto-detect a wide screen and expand the ribbon with more commands - but it remains to be seen if it will do away with these drop downs. My guess is that it will not but the improvemnts to the QAT should provide a decent solution.

For those without a 3D mouse, the view controls will be a problem. My advice - get a 3D mouse and save the frustration.

Tony

 

[donyoung]

> My advice - get a 3D mouse and save the frustration.

then you might encounter other troubles, disappearing QAT is one
The newest driver should solve that I've been told

newest driver version: v3.7.16

OTH why should I buy an additional device just to work with that
new UI? To repeat, any piece of software should have a UI that
is designed for it and for the type of work to be done with
that software and not a UI that is en vogue at the moment. I
could not think of a game with that UI. I've just bought new
versions of some software (banking, artwork) and they did not
follow $soft's route both have an UI that is nearly perfect
for the work to be done, every thing is on the right place
without click here and click there to get a function. This we
had with the UI up to and including V20 and it could be customized
incl. the toolbars) to suit one's need. V100 has lost a lot of
ergonomic in that area which was one of SE's strong arguments
over the competition

dy

 

[teebarr]

As yet, I have not experience disappearing toolbars but I do keep my driver up to date.

I accept that Fluent was not designed specifically for CAD, but then nor was the mouse. Ironic then that we expect the UI to compensate for the inadequacies of the mouse, when we have the option to use a CAD-specific manipulation device.

I am not defending what I regard as the poor implementation of view controls in ST1, but I would much rather development spent their time on modelling fuctionality than on a problem that has already been solved. With the cost of these devices not much more than a good mouse, I find it illogical to use a mouse only - in any CAD software.

Tony

 

[beachcomber]

In my opinion the interface is designed for laptops.
I have a 24" widescreen and menus (the ribbon) barely cover half the width of the screen - but running ST on a normal format or small screen is a joke because the pathfinder etc take up so much space.
With my 24" widescreen there is so much wasted space across the top, and I always seem to need an extra 1 or 2 clicks to change tabs to find the right command.
The only benefit I can see is that as SW and Inventor use this interface it might make it easier to switch between systems - until Microsoft come up with a 'new, improved' version.

bc.
2.4GHz Core2 Quad, 4GB RAM,
Quadro FX4600.

 

[donyoung]

> With the cost of these devices not much more than a good mouse

FYI
SpacePilot approx 450.00 EUR; Navigator (the "puck") approx. 50.00 EUR
a good 5-key mouse approx. 10.00 EUR ...

dy

 

[teebarr]

Don
I was really just making the point that these devices no longer represent the significant investment that they maybe once did and if you are spending £4000 on a piece of software, a complimentary piece of hardware at £80 is not unreasonable.
While I use a spacepilot, the various function buttons are rarely used, so in my book a Navigator at £45 does most of what you need. When I said "good" mouse, I really meant top of the range mouse and was thinking of the Logitech MX revolution at £55.
Actually, for the price, the spacepilot is a great example of poor ergonomic design - the function buttons are almost impossible to use without nudging the puck.

My apologies if I came accross in an abrasive manner, I wasn't meaning to be, but I am regularly surprised by how many CAD professionals (I am not refering to you) are so resistant to using this CAD-specific device.
Tony

 

[donyoung]

> if you are spending £4000 on a piece of software

oops! The translation into the English language must be quite expensive ... ($5000 Foundation domestic Northern America) but that's
a different story.


dy

 

[teebarr]

It seems that pretty much everything is more expensive over here. The last quote I saw for SE Classic floating licence was £4300 plus £1200 annual maintenance. That was 2007, don't know if it has changed since. How does this compare to the US?

 

[beachcomber]

For software prices £1 = $1, and that price is about correct Teebar, although there is an ad in a mag showing "from £3500", and one reseller is advertising a scrappage scheme to get £2500 off ST.
Not so long ago you could an exchange rate of get almost $2 to £1, which would put a UK purchase of SE at around the equivalent of $8500 !!
As for the translation into English (the usual excuse for UK pricing) Siemens can't even spell 'colour' correctly - but don't get me started on this.
I have a SpaceExplorer which costs about £180 - well worth the money.
I also have an old Spaceball 4000 that doesn't rotate in ST, but does work in traditional mode.

bc.
2.4GHz Core2 Quad, 4GB RAM,
Quadro FX4600.