Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part VIII 9

[dik]

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-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[Tomfh]

Good luck getting the "deniers" to admit that there are long term societal / environmental costs to CO2 emissions that are not considered in our current energy economy.

Straw man. I admit it. I just don’t agree that the costs spent “fixing” it to be worth it. We’re not going to stop carbon emissions any time soon, but we will do a hell of a lot of damage trying to fix it. Countries are already starting to run out of power, and they haven’t even made a dent in CO2 emissions.

 

[Tomfh]

Let's see your sources. I don't believe you.

The climate movement is very much a Trojan horse for those pushing socialism. Why do you think people like Thatcher, who originally supported climate action, did an about face when it became clear that climate action had become “a marvellous excuse for socialism”

https://www.resilience.org/stories/2019-01-16/extinction-rebellion-isnt-about-the-climate/

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/18/ending-climate-change-end-capitalism

https://climateandcapitalism.com/2023/03/07/greta-thunbergs-climate-book/

 

[BridgeSmith]

Our existence is interference.

That could technically be said about every living thing on the planet.

Smog and acid rain are bad.

Well, smog and acid rain are separate issues from CO2, which is good for plants, and not harmful to any animals in the concentration found in the atmosphere, or even at twice the level currently in the atmosphere. Nobody was talking about actual pollution, which I'm pretty sure nobody here is a proponent of increasing.

Let's see your sources. I don't believe you.

Here's one to start with. I'll do some more digging later.

U.N. Official Reveals Real Reason Behind Warming Scare

 

[Luceid]

Curious what you think about this Bridge:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ask-the-experts-does-rising-co2-benefit-plants1/

I haven’t read from this group before so I don’t know the validity, but it does provide more insight into the more CO2 is good for plants stance.

 

[BridgeSmith]

Here's another:

The climate change protests are a Trojan horse for socialism

The leader of the climate cult, teenage activist Greta Thunberg, essentially admitted as much when speaking to the United Nations on Monday. “We are in the beginning of a mass extinction and all you can talk about is money and fairy tales of eternal economic growth,” she said.

 

[BridgeSmith]

Curious what you think about this Bridge:

Typical of the prostitution many so-called 'scientists' eager to please their government benefactors, engage in. They admit that CO2 contributes to increased plant growth, but then try to say it doesn't matter because some areas will become too hot for plants to grow. This neglects the obvious other side of the coin - that a warming planet also allows places that were previously too cold (or too dry) to grow much plant life, too flourish with plant life. It also assumes that higher CO2 will drive continued warming, ignoring the many other factors that affect global temperatures.

 

[dik]

I was just wondering that, with a mass extinction, there may not be a reason to do anything about climate change...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[GregLocock]

The greening of the earth is a well known phenomenon, NASA has a page on it. The SA article ignores the more common issue with plants - lack of water. Extra CO2 means the pores on the leaves don't need to be open as much, so they lose less water to the atmosphere. Cherry picking? Seems they do it as well.




Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[TugboatEng]

The only thing going extinct is the proletariat and without them the socialists have no power.

 

[SwinnyGG]

Here's one to start with. I'll do some more digging later.

Here's another

So no one has actually said the thing you're saying they're saying, its all based on over analysis by right wing sources.

Thanks for that new information.

If someone shows up in this thread with some actual, real intellectual honesty I'll be shocked at this point.

 

[Tomfh]

I haven’t read from this group before so I don’t know the validity, but it does provide more insight into the more CO2 is good for plants stance.

More evidence that Scientific American went to the dogs years ago.

Net primary production (ie plant growth) is up 30% compared to 100 years ago, almost entirely due to the increase in CO2. The earth is significantly greener than 100 years ago. Global warming will cause a further increase in plant coverage if permafrost melts.

There are downsides to global warming. The effect on plants is not one of them. Plants like warmer wetter higher-CO2 environments. That’s why farmers put plants in greenhouses. Only our alarmist friends would tell us that no no, it’s actually a bad bad thing for plants.

 

[TugboatEng]

So the same EPA that is pushing for natural gas bans for home appliances is sunsetting HFC refrigerants at the same time. The R-410a phaseout begins this year. What do they expect us to use in our heat pumps?

 

[dik]

Sorry tug... climate change is non-political...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[rb1957]

sorry dik ... you've got to be kidding.

And maybe this is the key divide between the two camps. one sees the issue as a scientific certainty, the other sees it as a political problem.
And I think the "truth", such as it may be, is somewhere in between the two extremes. certainly we're impacting the environment (I don't see how anyone could object to that), the issue is how much. One camp thinks it is significant (even existential) and intends to apply significant political efforts to change our behaviour. The other thinks it is not significant in a global context (though it may well be significant in a local context, like a specific polluting factory) and would resist these political efforts.

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

 

[dik]

Climate change will kill socialists and capitalists with indifference. More likely the poor and downtrodden will be the worst to suffer. Quite serious... the indifference is non-political.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[hokie66]

Climate change won't kill anyone except those who won't adapt.

 

[dik]

Don't kid yourself, hokie... the wealthy (aka capitalists) will be less affected. Hurricanes, tornados, floods and droughts aren't fussy...

By adapting, that may include invading other countries with better climate conditions... all sorts of possibilities.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[GregLocock]

hurricanes decreasing, tornados decreasing, floods and droughts same as usual.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[dik]

Not so sure Greg...

https://www.ipcc.ch/2021/08/09/ar6-wg1-20210809-pr/

It's warming up...

Manitoba

California

Link:

https://showyourstripes.info/l/northamerica/usa/california

Choose your neighbourhood and see how's it's changed.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[BridgeSmith]

It's warming up...

Besides the obvious cherry-picking, there's also the 'adjustments', that for some inexplicable reason, only decrease the temperatures in the past and increase the ones in the present. Of course, if they wanted to do it correctly, it would be just the opposite, due to the well-documented effects of urban heat islands.