Switching professions 3

[DenRud]

The past 6 months I have been working as a temp at Symbol Technologies on Long Island. After having some trouble finding an entry level position in Electrical Engineering I decided to take a "Test and Validation tech" position as a way to get my foot in the door and meet some EEs. This was my first job comming out of college and I must say the experience was not what I expected. First my contact with EEs are extremely low and second I have noticed a huge decline in the amount of technology and EE jobs in the US. My company alone has been laying people off left and right. All of this has completely turned me off from the industry and is making me think of switching my profession all together. I have been seriously thinking about going back to college and earning a degree in structural or aerospace engineering, but am unsure on whether I should go for a bachelors or masters degree. I am wondering if any of you have had an experience in your life where you decided to change your profession and go into something else? I would really like to hear your thoughts on this.

 

[bigTomHanks]

Being a tech is a lot different than being an engineer. I realize that you probably took the job out of necessity, bills keep on coming regardless if you have employment. Keep looking for an engineering job and atleast give the engineering profession a try. Also, going to college and getting your BSEE is all you have to do to get your foot in the door. You don't need to work in a job that you are overqualified for. If anything, it might actually hurt your resume. Keep your head up and make due until you catch a break.

 

[kchida]

Denred,
I'm new to the engineering world as well. Commercial aerospace engineering probably isn't what you're looking for if you want to get down and dirty. From what I've gathered, all you'll get is a bunch of papercuts and a gently shove-off when the 'big wigs' no longer need your services! Now, I'm not sure about defense positions, but I can tell you that commercial aerospace is severly lacking innovation and R&D (well..I shouldn't say this because the 787 and A380 are still progressive, but they are not advancing the industry by leaps and bounds, by any means). However, I do understand the reason behind this trend; it makes no sense to build a hi-tech plane that airlines cannot afford (we cannot forget about the bottom line). Read my post in "Where's engineering going in the next 5 years" thread. I've calmed down a bit after I posted, but I still feel ya!

 

[dave472005]

Note a common rule of thumb for job finding.

For every ~$15000/year of salary, it takes ~1 month of searching to find a job (expect to make ~$45000 - expect to take ~3 months).

This also assumes that you are being very flexible in your job search - location, etc. The more restrictions you place on your job search, the longer it will take. If you need to stay in a specific town/area - I guess it could probably take a lot longer to find a position than if you are willing to relocate.

Also - most jobs are located through networking - just sending resumes blindly to companies via US Mail or web is not effective.

Was layed-off and had the benefit of a job placement service for a couple of months - helped me find a new position quicker than the average.

 

[sauba]

It seems to me that few companies are willing to train young engineers. If they can get what they want out of you as a technician, they will take it. If they can get what they want out of you as a drafter, they will take it. If they can get what they want out of you as an engineer doing the same simple tasks over and over, they will take it.

I hear many experienced engineers complain about the quality of young engineers, but in my experience I have found that it is extremely difficult to find any true mentorship and training. Throughout my short career, senior level engineers have merely found the level of competence that I possess and assigned tasks based on what will require the least amount of their time.

I am now on my second job since I graduated around 2.5 years ago, but I have been somewhat disappointed in my development since school. Most of my education since school has been a result of self study. I don't know if this is the normal method of training in my industry(MEP), but I would definitely prefer some true mentorship. I was hopeful that I could acquire a better learning environment by changing jobs, but this has not proven true thus far. I am already taking a look at the potential to make a switch to the product design/development industry in hopes of jumping into an entry level position and better developing my skills.

If all else fails, there is always grad school.

 

[CarolinaPE]

Sauba,

MEP is a funny industry in that you cannot seem to get a job unless you have 5 years of experience. I spent about a year learning the business on the side and knocking on doors before finally someone let me work with them. There is an awful lot to learn in MEP business and it takes time and tends to be all "on the job" training as firms just design differently. Learning stuff on the side is not a bad approach and the year I spent doing that has helped me tremendously. I highly recommend the Carrier design manual and their commercial systems quick reference book. ASHRAE also has some good continuing ed classes (I found it to be a surprise actually), and I still refer to all the books mentioned. The funny thing is you are looking to take a reverse route than the one I took. I spent 5 years as a product design engineer and switched to MEP about 3 years ago. Product design does have its positives as there are quite a few jobs out there and it can be a bit more creative at times. My experience was pretty much all on the job with that career as well. If you do switch to product design be very selective and do research on the company. I managed to jump from one sinking ship to another ship that was taking a torpedo in the side. Layoffs, plant closings, etc were an annual occurrence, six months after I left the last company they announced moving all production to China and massive layoffs ensued. I am well aware that MEP has down cycles as well but we tend to compete with the guy down the street, not one half way around the world.

 

[GeoSmith]

Might I ask what is MEP? Thanks.

 

[CarolinaPE]

MEP: Mechanical, Electrical, Plumbing. More or less designing these systems for facilities (offices, schools, etc). It would include air conditioning systems (boilers, chillers, cooling towers, etc), plumbing, fire protection (sprinkler systems, etc) and the electrical side.

 

[DenRud]

I'm wondering if it is a wise decision to get a MS. in Structural Engineering when I have a BS. in Electrical Engineering. Although I have the proper mathematical and scientific background to get through much of the technical stuff, I am not sure if I would be lost in these higher level Structural Engineering courses. I thought about going back and getting a BS in struct eng. but I can't help to think that it would be a waste to get another BS.

 

[CarolinaPE]

I'd check with a few universities to see if you could even do that. My guess would be they would require a BS in structural or the equivalent as a pre-requisite. I would also check to see if the MS has a lot more value than the BS for what you would want to do in structural. Sometimes, in certain segments of industry, it is not worth your while as they won't value the advanced degree. I went back to school for an MS after 3 years of working full time and it was a challenge to get used to school again (even getting an advanced degree in the same field as my undergrad). In other words you could be making things only harder for yourself by getting the MS rather than the BS but research should tell you that.

 

[wes616]

DenRud,

I would think that with a BSEE you'd be more than qualified to start the process of a MS in Strucural. You'll probablly be a year or so "out" of the program making up the deficencies in core structural undergrad coursework, but would be able to take those as defeciency credit... but enjoying the coursework, time will fly by.



Wes C.
------------------------------
There are no engineers in the hottest parts of hell, because the existence of a 'hottest part' implies a temperature difference, and any marginally competent engineer would immediately use this to run a heat engine and make some other part of hell comfortably cool. This is obviously impossible.

 

[DenRud]

Thanks for the advice. As for choosing a college, one of my top requirements is that I get work experience as I learn the courswork. The thing that bothers me the most about many Universities is that they only teach you the theory, but rarely touch upon or prepare you for the practical application that is needed out on the job. I regret not getting enough practical experience during my college years. Can anyone recommend a structural engineering program that will not only teach me the backgroud, but will give me practical experience as well? I wouldn't mind studying abroad if the program is right

 

[wes616]

You should look for a co-op program then... but you won't find this TOO much in a Masters program.

My suggestion.... Learn the theory. You'll then have a lifetime to perfect the practical.

Wes C.
------------------------------
There are no engineers in the hottest parts of hell, because the existence of a 'hottest part' implies a temperature difference, and any marginally competent engineer would immediately use this to run a heat engine and make some other part of hell comfortably cool. This is obviously impossible.

 

[CarolinaPE]

Denrud,

I would imagine most curriculums would be equivalent (in regards to being more theoretial rather than practical) when comparing schools for a BS or MS in structural. I agree with Wes in that you will learn the practical out of school, not in it. School will provide the foundation and it may take years on the job to fully appreciate that. I personally am more in favor of "summer internships" than co-ops. Reason being is that a co-op delays your start date (and years of experience) as a full time engineer. I had a good friend co-op his way through school and it took him about 3-4 years longer to graduate. Unfortunately, co-op experience will not get you much more "experience credit" than the summer jobs when talking with HR depts, engineering managers or recruiters looking for an experienced engineer. They seem to want full time experience as a graduate engineer. Getting your feet wet with some experience is valuable though and why I would recommend a summer job between semesters.

PS- have you ever considered a different area in electrical? My experience as a mechanical showed me there are industries you do and others you do not want any part of.

 

[AggieYank]

From my semi-brief job search a year and a half ago for a structural engineering job, I found most companies were offering very similiar salaries for masters and BS civil/structural degrees. They of course looked at the masters degree person first, but didn't reflect that too much in the salary.

As for the BS versus MS, I'd recommend getting the BS in structural, as this would probably only take you a year or a year and a half. Work for a year or two, figure out if you like it, and then look at getting your masters degree if you still want to.