ST4 Launch: What are you hoping to see today?

[toffeet]

Some of you might know that today is the launch of ST4. What improvements and new features do you hope to see today?

Regards,
Theodore

Solid Edge ST3 MP5 on WinXP x64
Insight Server on Win2008 R2 & SQL 2008 R2 x64
SharePoint 3.0 x64

 

[beachcomber]

The ability of Solid Edge to recover from a crash would be a first choice.

Integration of Sheet Metal and Part environments so you don't have to choose which one to start with, and so you can instantly convert a part model to sheet metal.

Multiple Solid Bodies in one file with the ability to create boolean operations with them.

Far greater flexibility in Sheet Metal so that you can re-configure bends/rips - as you can in SpaceClaim.



bc.
2.4GHz Core2 Quad, 4GB RAM,
Quadro FX4600.

Where would we be without sat-nav?

 

[swertel]

Oooooh. I had some ideas, but I like BC's better. I'm going with that list for now.

But in addition, I'm really waiting to see what improvements Siemens has made to the drafting environment. Creating drawings is still a necessary evil for us and is the largest time spender.

--Scott

http://www.wertel.pro

 

[toffeet]

Looks like there is some information available on ST4.

http://www.plm.automation.siemens.com/en_us/products/velocity/solidedge/st4/index.shtml?&ku=true&a=4

Solid Edge ST3 MP5 on WinXP x64
Insight Server on Win2008 R2 & SQL 2008 R2 x64
SharePoint 3.0 x64

 

[KENAT]

Based on my ST3 training, I'd settle for being less of a RAM hog and not crashing so much.

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[beachcomber]

To anyone that went.........

What did you see?

Kenat-
That's exactly my impression of ST3 here.

bc.
2.4GHz Core2 Quad, 4GB RAM,
Quadro FX4600.

Where would we be without sat-nav?

 

[lapuser]

I was there and here are my impressions.Please keep in mind that I did not go to but roughly 1/3 of the sessions so much of what I am going to talk about is observations from others who were there in those sessions.

First off, the philosophy of how users are to be regarded has changed entirely. The old PLM World mentality of SE users being second class citizens is gone. The reason this Summit [yes thats really what this was even though not called so by name and the return of an identity for the SE users] took place was in many ways a formal aknowledgment that there were problems, they knew it, and furthermore ARE going to fix them. I am privy to communications most are not and I will tell you this is for real. MANY new announcements for the academic and user communities coming out shortly and yes even the idea that Solid Edge is worthy of refering to by name and will be. Imagine that after all that velocity crap.

I have to talk about the philosophical change before the cad changes because the old mentality left over from the UGS/Integraph/EDS days are the source of many of our complaints and Siemens has determined to end this. So what does this mean.

The developement staff for example has gone up over 30% this year. I heard this over the podium but it has been nice to see it in person in Huntsville this last year and know this is really happening. The Huntsville "Summit", yes I know the PLM guys don't like to hear that but from this users perspective they are a bunch of obstructionist backwards looking individuals whose exit from the scene can't come fast enough to suit me, was the formal announcement of this change in corporate philosophy.

It also means a lot more money going into the product itself. ST4 is primarily about the improvement of the basic ST tools for increased predictability and easier workflow. This is not a big new bells and whistles release but more of a we have just made your working day a lot easier release. The stated goal for SE is for it to be the best mid-range MCAD program and that they are not going to be sidetracked from this. It's hard to be specific about the changes when I am not one of the beta testers and did not see it all at the Summit but what I saw and the general concensus is that the useability has been really improved. Things like when you move a face or faces in ST what is impacted? Now you will be able to pull up a prompt that will show you an exact face count of affected entities and be able to SEE them to. Better help in what exactly is needed in live rules to make something work.

There were users there in some cases going back to V1. Many of these have been expressing total doubt about reliability in ST and refusing to go past V20. EVERY one of them that were there I spoke to no longer feel that way and will be moving forward to ST4.

I know I am being long on comments and short on actual feature changes here but my main reason to be there was that this SE only convention is something I have been pushing for so I missed out on a lot of the sessions. I was more interested in helping kick start this moribund SE user community into action again.

If this makes any sense I will tell you that this Summit must have been just like the day when the Solid Works users stood around in a meeting somewhere and came to the realization that all things were coming together and that they were finally going in a significant upward direction. You would have had to be there to realize how excited SE users were over this and you ask anyone who was there and see if they don't tell you the same thing. ST4 will be regarded as when everything came together in all areas for us and I really think we will replace Solid Works in the near future as #1. We are certainly there in function in every area but complex surfacing so for 90% of us cad users happy days are here. Can you tell I am encouraged?

 

[lapuser]

Hey guys about the ram deal. They had a bunch of Dell 5500's there which did not have a real hot CPU in them but did just fine. They were testing out the new ATI graphics cards which did seem to be giving them some trouble. Can't remeber any comments on RAM related problems.

 

[toffeet]

Hello Lapuser,
Thank you for your feedback from the Summit. I wished I could attend it but I live thousands of miles away in Cape Town, South Africa.

I have been designing and manufacturing agricultural machines for the past 12 years and have learned that you can have two machines with the same features but it is the detail that sets them apart. I believe that the same applies to software. From what I have seen so far from ST4 it seems that there was a bigger focus on getting the detail right. For me that is a good thing and I am looking forward to getting my hands on the new release.

I also appreciate their focus on machine design. This is the area where Solid Edge should be adding value to our business, not cloud computing or social media.

Regards,
Theodore

Solid Edge ST3 MP5 on WinXP x64
Insight Server on Win2008 R2 & SQL 2008 R2 x64
SharePoint 3.0 x64

 

[JohnRBaker]

The old PLM World mentality of SE users being second class citizens is gone.

While I appreciate your situation, you must understand that "PLM World" is a non-profit corporation which has absolutely nothing to do with the Siemens corporation. I suggest that you read their charter at:

http://www.plmworld.org/p/cm/ld/fid=18

Now I understand that there has been a long term concern that despite what the PLM World charter may say about Solid Edge and their users, that you all have been ignored. I'm sorry that you feel that way, but the PLM World organization has a responsibility to the people who have historically participated in the various PLM World activities and events over the past 35 years (one of the precursors to PLM World held their first annual meeting in 1976) and while I agree that it's a shame that more Solid Edge users have not participated in past events, the response of the PLM World leadership has been to respond to those groups of users who have shown the greatest interest. To some extent, the typical profile of a Solid Edges user may be somewhat different than what many of the PLM World activities and events are geared for and as such it has lead to this disappointment with what PLM World offered Solid Edge users, at least that's my opinion, for what it's worth.

Now that being said, I think it's great that Karsten and Dan and the other Siemens Solid Edge team have done such a good job in working on the issues vis-a-vis the relationship between the Solid Edge user community and the Siemens orgnaization, and I know that they will continue to work on improving this relationship making it world class to go along with their world class product and their world class development and support team. However, please keep in mind that this effort is NOT a condemnation of the PLM World organization as we are talking about two different groups each with their own goals and their own responsibilities. And while I think that the management team at PLM World could have worked a bit harder on the relationship with Solid Edge user, in the end they have very limited resources (after all, they are a non-profit corporation) and as such they need to spend those limited resources where they will benefit the largest portion of their membership.

Anyway, I hope you don't mind my adding my 2 cents to this thread as I have been involved, first as a member of one of the user organizations, 'The Unigraphics Users Group', which was a precursor to PLM World, and then later as an employee of the various companies and organizations which have evolved into Siemens PLM Softwate Inc. and as such I have been a big supporter of PLM World, albeit from a UG/NX point of view.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA

http://www.siemens.com/plm

http://www.plmworld.org/museum/

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[lapuser]

John is correct in that what I say are my feelings and impressions and that my positions may not be the corporate SE positions. I know he is a tireless supporter of NX and we have differing opinions on things like the value of PLM World to SE users. I don't discount what he says and perhaps some day PLM World will do things to change the opinions of the SE users towards them.

No matter what the corporate or PLM World desires are here at this time SE users do not want to be with PLM World as far as I can see. I think attendance in Huntville is proof of that. PLM World is going to have to dig deep with a lot of effort to repair relations with SE users and quite frankly from where I stand it is not going to happen. SE users are in a different world than the type of individual that attends PLM World for the most part and tying the SE users to a place they did not want to be in, did not ask to be in and furthermore a place they have chosen not to be in seems to me to be a silly thing to try. We just need to be left alone with our own group. You know when you think about it it will be wildly profitable for Siemens to just leave us be in peace with our own group because it is what we want and we become evangelists for SE when we are happy. Considering the growth potential for SE with Dassault putting the "Jeff Death Ray" kill SW thing on their users this IS the time to create and develope an SE user organisation to help increase the SE user base perhaps exponentialy. I for one have no intention of ever going to PLM World again as it is currently structured. However John we would love to see you at our meetings if you would like to step on over and have a visit.

The mid range CAD jugernaut has been launched. I know this sounds pretty corny but time will tell all and I bet I am right. I think within a few years me may well have more SE users at an event than NX etal does.

 

[JohnRBaker]

That was part of the point I was trying to make, Solid Edge and PLM World have been on different spatial planes and it's not that either group has done anything wrong since it has much to do with things like 'DNA' and what I guess can be best described as 'tribal experiences' which after 35 years is quite different for the UG/NX/Ideas/Metaphase/Teamcenter user community than perhaps the Solid Edge one. However, I've only heard positive things from the effort that the Solid Edge team has made over the last year or so and I hope that they continue the good work.

As for my participating in one of your events, I'll have to keep that in mind, but whatever I contribution that I could make it would be from a UG/NX point of view. You see, I've been attending UG Users Meetings (AKA PLM World) since 1977. However, I will remind people that PLM World, on a regional level, sponsor several meetings during the year in many of larger cities in the country. Most of these seem to take place in the Fall and if you look at the PLM World website they do list these events and I will be presenting at many of them. So if you see one in your area stop in and say hello and if nothing else, you'll get a chance to see how the other half of Siemens PLM lives ;-)

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA

http://www.siemens.com/plm

http://www.plmworld.org/museum/

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[lapuser]

Thanks John but I don't think they have any in northern Alabama or southern Tennessee. You are right on the money with the SE team and I think great things are in store.

I know you have been around and so maybe you can shed some light on something. Sorry everyone for kind of hijacking this thread but this topic does have some relevance to SE. How did the Summit meetings like the last one in Cincinnati in 2005 get stopped and put into PLM World? I hear stories but I am curious as to your take on this. You are right we are on two spatial planes and I have never heard exactly why the SE one was put into the NX/PLM World one.

 

[kjoiner]

Lapuser,

I took a quick look at the specs on the Dell computers before one of the hands on sessions started. They were running 2.53 GHz Xeons (I don't remember which model) with 12GB of RAM.

Kyle

 

[beachcomber]

As a user since V3, the main thing that bugs me is the way things have taken a U-turn with ST.
One of the many selling points of SE was it's simplicity and the uniform/standard way that commands worked, and how we needed fewer clicks. We had the Smartstep bar where we all knew to look, and that got the focus when a command started. Now we have bits of things all over the screen.
In assembly we get a little box that gives us Edit Definition or Edit in Place, in parts and draft we now have to click on a dimension value to change it, not anywhere on the dimension, it appears at different places - and you can only edit ONE value at a time, you now can't edit a string of dimensions to have the same value.
We've just had the auto-hiding of the assembly constraints window (one of the most annoying 'features' ever devised).
The view commands are tucked away at bottom right and get covered up by print notifications.
There is also now the inconsistency between sync and traditional commands - patterning for example has different options.

To be honest, I think the interface is now a real mess compared with V20 and earlier, and the click-count has increased. I know we have the QAT, but all that does is give us back what we had in V20 - the ability to have our most commonly used commands on a toolbar.

I would just like the developers to stop tweaking and breaking things that work perfectly well, and concentrate on actually improving Solid Edge where its really needed - as they have done with draft Parts Lists.

I listed 4 areas in my first post.
It really is poor that we have got to version 24 and still can't recover work after a crash.

bc.
2.4GHz Core2 Quad, 4GB RAM,
Quadro FX4600.

Where would we be without sat-nav?

 

[lapuser]

I don't have a clue why some things are never fixed it seems or why problems get out the door without being caught. Or what causes some choices to be made for features. I do know that a good deal of attention is paid to complaints raised by many on the same issue so if you can get a number of people to start complaining about problems near and dear to you it has a better chance at getting fixed. Have you contacted GTAC to get that ball rolling?

Two of the sessions at Huntsville were round table discussions on what you wanted to see fixed or added. It basically started off with a comment that if SE does not hear from you it won't in all likelyhood be looked at. Bend their ear and then get others on board.

 

[beachcomber]

I've said this in the past, but my difficulty is I am not an employee of any of the companies I work for so I don't get access to their GTAC login details.
If I have a problem I can call the appropriate VAR, but they are never going to be interested if I say "Isn't it about time I could recover my work from a crash" or
"Why isn't there a utility for transferring my settings to a new computer or new version of SE".
They just want details of the crash, what service pack, computer details etc.

I can only rely on putting my thoughts on forums like this and hope that enough people will agree with me and make the call themselves.

bc.
2.4GHz Core2 Quad, 4GB RAM,
Quadro FX4600.

Where would we be without sat-nav?

 

[JohnRBaker]

How did the Summit meetings like the last one in Cincinnati in 2005 get stopped and put into PLM World?

I can't speak for what was the motivation or expectations for either the Solid Edge group or PLM World since I was not part of either organization at the time these decisions were made. However, I suspect that someone somewhere just assumed that it was a natural evolution. For what it's worth, what you see as PLM World today is really the result of the merging of the International Unigraphics Users Group and ICON (the Ideas Users group from the days of SDRC) back in 2002. I would suggest that perhaps someone like Karsten or Dan may be better qualified to address that question then I since, as I've said, have been focused only on UG/NX.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA

http://www.siemens.com/plm

http://www.plmworld.org/museum/

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[HDS]

beachcomber

from the what's new:

Solid Edge newsgroup The Solid Edge newsgroup (see the following URL) is a great source for technical support across all product offerings, enabling users to ask questions, as well as to both solicit and offer advice:

http://bbsnotes.ugs.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=7

Siemens PLM Software now enables you to more easily access this newsgroup directly from the start menu without a Webkey. We also have provided a built-in language translator so you can review or make posts in your local language.

 

[beachcomber]

The link you posted requires a login.
The link from Solid Edge Help requires a login.
I can't see anything on the Start menu to access the newsgroup.

bc.
2.4GHz Core2 Quad, 4GB RAM,
Quadro FX4600.

Where would we be without sat-nav?