Silence of the grid experts 3

[GregLocock]

https://judithcurry.com/2023/05/03/silence-of-the-grid-experts/

A great article on why the utilities aren't vocal about the problems that wind and solar are causing now, and will cause in the future.

Cheers

Greg Locock


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[GregLocock]

And an article on why electrifying the natural gas pipelines was a bad idea

https://www.masterresource.org/texa...ified-natural-gas-pipeline-compressors-texas/

Cheers

Greg Locock


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[dik]

If hydro, wind and solar generation of power are to supplant fossil fuels, there has to be an overall coordination of the implementation these alternate power sources, else there could be some issues. Coordination of these alternate power sources with the grid is essential, in particular when fossil fuel input is reduced. I'm not a sparky, but I'm aware of some of the problems.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[TugboatEng]

You may be aware but the politicians setting the rules don't seem to be.

It is possible to turn a decomissioned fossil fuel plant into a synchronous condenser. That may help with some of the issues related to inverter based generation.

 

[SnTMan]

"... and then a miracle happens ..."

LOL

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

 

[Tomfh]

Good articles. I often wondered why those who know better aren’t speaking up. I guess we need to wait for the energy crunches to really bite.

 

[dik]

I think you're right, Tom... problem is that by the time that happens, we may be on a road, we cannot turn back from.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[TugboatEng]

That's why we can't let the climate alarmists take us there.

 

[rb1957]

"wondered why those who know better aren’t speaking up" ... 'cause to go against the script, to be anything other than true believer, is to invoke the ire of the faithful and an invitation to be cancelled.

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

 

[dik]

With or without the alarmists... you may already be on that road.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[dik]

Did anyone ever consider:

'A whole pile of stuff' x 5% (probability) = 'A whole pile of stuff'

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[rb1957]

that only works if your "pile o'stuff" is infinite ...

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

 

[dik]

No, it can still be a pile of stuff. With infinite, you get infinite... not just a pile of stuff.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[GregLocock]

Well, I've posted before about why the precautionary principle can't be used in decision making, obviously those articles didn't sink in.

Cheers

Greg Locock


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[thermionic1]

I routinely install and test protection systems used on our transmission grid. The protection devices have a myriad of programmable functions. In most cases, a line from one of our stations to another, has 3 different protection functions employed - current differential, impedance and time overcurrent. These systems are duplicated with a primary and secondary device. If the comms go down, the backup impedance will still be there. If the VT signal fails after that the overcurrent will still be there.

When we have to interface with an IPP using IBR, it's a little scary as the IPP generally won't pay for the FO comms, and the settings on the impedance elements are severely restricted. Impedance relays have been protecting T- Lines for about 70 years and rely on certain properties of faults, namely negative sequence current components to determine if the fault is in front or behind the relay. This, combined with communication to the remote end prevents over tripping of lines. IBR's do not produce negative sequence currents, so we have these very unsophisticated custom protection elements that are used in substitution. Fault currents can normally be several thousand amps, which again the relays can respond to. IBR's produce 1.2-1.3 times their FLA. It makes our protection engineers shake their heads and roll their eyes when discussing this. Out T grid has to accept these IBR's on the system and, I guess, has to work with what we have to try to provide coordinated protection.

 

[hokie66]

thermionic1,

Can you interpret that for those of us here who are not electrical engineers? Are Greg's problems with wind and solar real, and if so, how bad?

 

[rb1957]

why not ...
"if you want to connect to our grid then you need these things too (your "FO comms" and other things) in order to make your connection safe (for our operators, for our system)."

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

 

[enginesrus]

All need to learn that Mineral oil, (propagandist term "fossil fuel"), is our best option of a renewable energy source there is on this earth. Even burning it in inefficient devices, puts out thousands (.001%) of a fraction of what all the worlds volcanic activity does.

 

[SwinnyGG]

All need to learn that Mineral oil, (propagandist term "fossil fuel"), is our best option of a renewable energy source there is on this earth.

Quoted than for no other reason than in case you backtrack this bit of lunacy at a later date

Even burning it in inefficient devices, puts out thousands (.001%) of a fraction of what all the worlds volcanic activity does.

Wrong, by a long way.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/earthtalks-volcanoes-or-humans/

 

[GregLocock]

OK, everybody can calm down, the Government is getting involved... sarc off

https://www.utilitydive.com/news/ferc-grid-reliability-senate-energy-hearing/649523/

The USA is, by and large, in a better situation than Australia, but is going down the same path, as analysed in The Simple Challenge thread. So I guess we're the crash test dummy. As I write the state which regularly claims to be 100% renewable is relying on 210 MW piped in over the border, and another mendicant state is using 440 MW via the Bass Link, an HVDC connector, which they occasionally blow up by trying to overload it. Then the diesels kick in.

Cheers

Greg Locock


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