Reasons for Losing your PE 12

[tuggertoo]

In our state, NM, engineers can lose their license if convicted of a felony. Do you believe that the type of crime should be considered? Or just being a "felon" is enough to lose your license. Our situation involves a soon to be former partner who has plead guilty to tax evasion. His hearing in front of the board is scheduled for November 1, 2007. If he loses his license, can it ever be reinstated?

 

[DRC1]

So he signs a tax return that he swears it is properly filed out to the best of his knoweldge when he knows it is not. If there is a problem with a design that may have significant fincial impact, how do you know based on his previous action, that he would not sign it also? Frankly, after having thought about it, I don't see a difference.

 

[GregLocock]

Because filing a tax return that is wrong causes no physical problems for anybody else, whereas buidling a bridge that falls down does?

Yup, no difference at all there.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[BJC]

Ken Lay didn't do any physical harm to anyone so if he had lived he should be allowed to be an engineer, a CPA, a policeman???

 

[GregLocock]

Answer the implied question.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[Lion06]

Greg-
I would givve you 10 stars if they would let me!

 

[BJC]

I implied an answer.

 

[VoyageofDiscovery]

DRC1

Tax law is complex, and that's why there are tax lawyers, we let the lawyers do the work, we pay them for it and they should be accountable.

VOD

 

[KENAT]

"Because filing a tax return that is wrong causes no physical problems for anybody else"

Doesn't it?

While we all know that in practice the government would squander any extra money raised by 100% payment of taxes by everyone (and/or cut taxes to win an election) in theory there may be an argument that they could do some good with that money, perhaps extra health care...

Is lying on a structural report for say a bridge for financial gain worse than lying on a tax return for the same reason?

If you're found to have lied on one does it suggest you'd be willing to lie on the other?



KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[BJC]

Kenat
That's the way I see it, a liars is a liar is a liar.
I don't hold that some one who license is suspended shouldn't be able to get it back. There are proceedures and processes to get it back. It shouldn't be shouldn't be automatic.

 

[KENAT]

BJC, I think we're on the same page.

I too believe in second chances and as suggested before agree that under the right circumstances you should be able to get it back.

I also agree with the fact that at least the board in question considers it on a case by case bases.

However, losing it in the first place for being convicted of certain serious offences which suggest lack of character, or what ever you want to call it, doesn't sound such a bad idea to me.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[DonPhillips]

When I received my Ohio renewal form this year, there the Board's list of disciplinary action. One engineer was convicted of felony domestic violence and the Board punished him (cannot remember what it was, like a suspension for 90 days or something) but did not take away his license.

Don Phillips

http://worthingtonengineering.com

 

[DRC1]

Greg Locock: This guy knowingly signed false documents for personal gain. As far as I am concerned thats all you need to know. How can such a person be trusted with the safety of the public? The physical consequenses of ones actions are not important. Every mis deed can be justified somehow. This person significantly broke the law and loss of public trust is a consequense of that action.

VOD: Yes the tax laws are complex. Filing coperate and personal returns has generated a significant industry just to pay taxes. Yes it is easy to screw up your taxes. However the IRS allows you to correct it, even if they find it, albeit with a hefty penalty. The difference between a tax mistake and tax evassion is degree and intent. You have to knowingly plan to significantly underpay your taxes.

 

[Lion06]

WOW! I suppose none of you ever lie, huh?
A liar is a liar is a liar, right BJC.
Think about that next time you tell your grandmother you love her cookies.

 

[BJC]

Never new my Grandmother. But I have eaten cookies that were't all that great and said I loved them. Which I did not for the taste but due to who made them.
It's a slippery slope. Lie about the cookeie and on it goes next time it could be the beam loading is OK ( calculated stress is only 400 PSI off the minimum allowable).
And so it goes, next thing you know it's lying about WMDs etc.
Ever consider that the state of society might be the collective state of the indivuals in it?

 

[DonPhillips]

In addition to the Ohio felon who was only suspended, here is a status of additional legislation being considered in Ohio, per the OSPE website:

"OSPE watches legislation for reinstating professional licenses, by John Troy, PE, F.NSPE, Vice President, OSPE Legislative & Government Affairs

In House Bill 171, Rep. Sandra Williams has introduced legislation affecting a broad range of professional licenses. The core issue in the bill is that it would establish standards by which professional boards can reinstate licensed professionals convicted of a crime.

While this bill affects many professions, it raises a significant issue in engineering. In current state law the approach is that an engineer convicted of a crime involving moral turpitude could be deprived of his or her license. This bill however seems to reserve the removal of a license to only those crimes that are directly related to the profession.

Because OSPE’s viewpoint of engineering practice in an ethical position requires engineers to perform at a higher standard, it raises considerable concern about maintaining both the public confidence and their reliance on engineers to perform in a very professional manner.

OSPE is entering into discussions with both the sponsor of the bill and the board of registration as to the nuances of this particular legislation.

Our first position would be simply to exempt engineers from this bill but since many allied professions are also affected we may need to take a more detailed approach."

Don Phillips

http://worthingtonengineering.com

 

[Gymmeh]

Just because someone loses their PE license doesn’t mean their engineering life is over; you can still work under a PE, you can work in an exempt field, or move into a different department which doesn’t require a PE.

I am confused that this topic is not black and white, especially dealing with federal laws like tax evasion. The only gray area IMO in this is if you get a felony for the state of Texas and loose you license in CA, because state laws can very drastically.

I may be wrong...or confused

 

[DonPhillips]

Gymmeh,

Most states have a provision if you lose your license in one state for reasons that are actionable in another, your lose your second license. For instance, in Ohio, a crime involving moral turpitude in another state leading to you losing that state's license would warrant Ohio to revoke your Ohio license.



Don Phillips

http://worthingtonengineering.com

 

[Gymmeh]

Don, Thank you. I am trying to learn!