Ralph Nader explains Why early Corvairs were/are unsafe

[Tmoose]

http://archives.cbc.ca/400d.asp?id=1-69-1754-12091&wm6=1

 

[patdaly]

The only problem is by the time Nader did it, the Corvair was a safe, well handling design. He did it for personal glory, without benefit of engineering analysis.

I defy anyone to drive a 65-69 Corvair and flip it.

 

[Timelord]

patdaly is correct.
By '65 Corvair had fully independent suspension in the back. It was exactly the same setup as the rear of a Vette with some of the parts fully interchangeable. I had one back then. I put a V8 in the back seat to make my own mid engined car. Fastest, best handling car I ever had.

Timelord

 

[NormPeterson]

Just what did that link say (it's not at all dial-up friendly even with a maximum speed connection).

But as a general comment, how much weight can legitimately given to the presentation of information related to vehicle dynamics by a person who as far as I know did not hold a driver's license nor an engineering degree but did apparently have an agenda?

I do know that as a young and enthusiastic driver with occasional access to one of the early Corvairs, I never encountered any episodes where I might have had to clean up any "elephant repellant". Kind of a fun little car, actually, and even my uncle drove it harder than he drove any of his other cars. What were all those people doing so differently?

Norm

 

[GregLocock]

His main point was the tendency for the rear suspension to jack and fold the outer wheel underneath must have been evident at the prototype stage, yet they manufactured the car for three years before introducing the necessary changes.



Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[BillyShope]

One of my associates at Chrysler spun out a '60 Corvair on one of the Detroit Expressways while evaluating it. He happened to be a VW owner and he got a little carried away.

For a non-technical person, Nader did a pretty good job in the film clip, but he missed the really significant point, which is that, at the limits of adhesion, you can't rely on a tire air pressure "fix." This was the really "criminal" part of the Corvair presentation. I would have appreciated the opportunity to enjoy the humor of Ernie Kovacs for a few more years. And, I'm certain Edie would have, also.

 

[Tmoose]

Oversteer, camber change, suspension jacking, rolling over.

My Grandma had a new Corvair Monza in the early 1960s. I can remember as an impressionable young teen riding with her along a twisty new Hampshire back road. She proudly announced "It holds the road like a snake." For years that phrase delivered in an old lady voice could be counted on to trigger laughter among my punk friends.

A little later Grammy totaled that Monza by rolling it over either entering or leaving a toll booth. Got another 'Vair then, then squandered more of her dwindling principal on a series of Porsche 912 and 911 (all with non-swing axle rear suspension). There is a busted genuine city fire hydrant in my Mom's garden which was harvested by Grammy in one of those Porsches. I think she spent some time in the hospital too.

I have owned a few Corvairs. My first one was a 1963 Spyder, which my dad gave me in 1968 in an effort to keep me from buying a motorcycle while at school(GMI). Practically the first day it, I, and several trusting hippie friends were very nearly sideways in traffic on a Flint Michigan semi-highway as a result of me showing off my driving "skills". With much wheel twirling and some divine intervention a recovery was made, and we continued on our way. The problem was, of course, me. My previous car was a clapped out MGA, which, even shod very used Micelin X tires (thenselves with reputation for sudden breakaway), tolerated my vicous steering wheel snaps even under trailing throttle like an old Labrador Retriever, with nary a bite.

Another freshman at GMI owned a nearly stock VW beetle and campaigned it VERY successfully at a few of the Gykhana that the GMI car club (firebirds) had put on. About the only modification was a camber compensator. He described his Gymkana style as simply trailing throttle into the corner, then accelerate out. Within a week Based in part on the recommendation the Spyder had a "camber compensator" from JC Whitney. On my Corvair it worked just as he described. The 1964 Corvairs came stock with a similar device, and the 1965-69s had "real" rear suspension. I had a few 65-67, and despite rear weight bias, I never "lost" (gave away?) the rear end on any of those cars.

A few weeks ago a young co-worker was complaining that his BMW 3-something skidded wildly and unexpectedly while he was turning coming into the dry paved parking lot. On a whim He had switched off the traction control.

 

[BillyShope]

Tmoose, I was a faculty advisor for the Firebirds, but that was before your time. I remember Jim Bay and Bill Waddill, but I don't remember the names of the guys in the same office with me. I do remember inviting Tom Hoover to speak to the club. I went to AC in '64 or '65.

 

[etatv]

"A few weeks ago a young co-worker was complaining that his BMW 3-something skidded wildly and unexpectedly while he was turning coming into the dry paved parking lot. On a whim He had switched off the traction control."

Very funny stuff Maybe he needs to drive something a bit older and learn how drive the car rather than have the car drive him.

When I was at GMI it was more like dodge the pot holes and bullets.

 

[BillyShope]

etatv, when you refer to dodging bullets, I suppose you're referring to the general neighborhood around GMI, which certainly isn't part of Flint's best.

I used to enjoy playing pool at the little pool hall halfway down the hill to the engine plant. As I walked back to GMI one Friday, I saw a worker from the plant sitting in the passenger's side seat of a new Cadillac, still in his coveralls. He was holding the largest wad of bills I've ever seen and was sitting there, obviously waiting to hand them over and apparently quite uncomfortable. The numbers game is profitable for some!

 

[RikuY]

Wow!
I had no idea all these GMI alumni are around here. I am a class of '00 alumnus. However, my diploma says Kettering on it. Nice to hear!

To add some content, never ridden in a Corvair, but had a '01 BMW 325 with the independent suspension. The fun really started when the Traction Control is off in that car. Moving the 4-door sedan body through an auto-cross course was work. I still can't believe the effectiveness of the Traction Control in that car. Night and day. Probably would have controlled the Corvair models much better...