PERSPECTIVE NEEDED. 3

[AUCE98]

I need some suggestions. How would you handle a government plan reviewer which is telling you that “your building is over-designed” yet they have not performed calculation #1 to show where anything is incorrect. I am being told that full pen welds on a moment frame structure only need to be fillet welds, and instead of a steel moment frame (BECAUSE IT IS TOO EXPENSIVE), to use a cmu shear wall system, with masonry walls which are 25’ tall x 10’ long. The comments he is making are out in left field, yet he has the people in his agency listening. So, before I go pee in the pool and tell this guy what I really think, I would like a fresh take on the situation.

 

[dgillette]

I've been on both sides of the table, having worked as a consultant, an in-house designer and reviewer of in-house designs), and as a reviewer of designs and analyses done by consultants for us (another agency, not GSA).

Working for GSA as Contracting Officer's Technical Representative, he is obligated to get the most economical design that is adequate and constructible. If he's not questioning, he's not doing his job. Likewise, if he's not listening to the answers, he's not doing his job.

JedClampett - are you referring to being a plan reviewer for code compliance, or a plan reviewer for some agency as owner? Big difference!

 

[JedClampett]

Working for a City for Code Compliance. And only for non municipal work (they have internal code reviewers for city work).

 

[dgillette]

That's what I figured, but I wanted to be sure I understood your point. My reaction would be different if you were acting as the owner's representative.

DRG

 

[DaveAtkins]

Clearly, since he works for the GSA, the reviewer is the client and has a right to express his views.

Will the GSA's proposal work? Will it reduce construction costs? Will it cause a lot of rework for you?

I expect this sort of situation whenever I work for a government entity.

DaveAtkins

 

[AUCE98]

Dave,
That is the most frustrating aspect of this issue, the framing scheme the GSA is proposing would not work from a design standpoint yet the GSA reviewer is insisting it would. We have stated our position with the current design, and all the aspects that factored into our decisions. At this point to go back and forth and argue with the GSA would be pointless. My father always said do not debate with the crazy person on the street corner, a passerby will not know which one is crazy.

 

[dgillette]

In that case, it's time to have your point of contact for the contract talk to the Contracting Officer, since you and the COTR are two-blocked. (I'm assuming this guy is the COTR, which requires 40 hours of training, believe it or not. Whether he is or isn't, he's not the final authority.) The Federal acquisition regulations have a formal process for dispute resolution that will, I believe, put the onus on the COTR to demonstrate that the product is faulty and does not meet the letter of the contract, which in this case would require a parallel design that is shown to be adequate, but cheaper. Sorry I can't cite chapter and verse for you.

 

[darthsoilsguy2]

moment welds to special fillet weld connections?!

This is a crock of BS. The erection companies i work with price by the ton. They work for the steel fabricator, who is looking to sell metal. Maybe if you're whole system is moment welds, it could be looked at... but i'm guessing it's not.

if you change the whole system from a steel to masonry building... then you might have some savings... but what good is a shear wall or two going to do you.

Wonder what this Jacka$$ thinks about wasteful spending in unnecessary permitting. It's hard enough to earn a living as an engineer without the BS-Tax taking out our potential profits on every other corner.

 

[MultiVar]

Holy Crikey, a CMU shear wall 25' tall and 10' in the shear plane? Sounds whacked. I have just HAVE to model THAT!

Could the OP please (on an empty stomach), talk to the GSA jackass, and obtain the proposed "expert" construction of said walls, i.e. number, size, spacing of bond beams, vertical rebar schedule, grouting, anchoring, etc.?


Oh yeah, and if it won't compromise Dick Cheney's security, could you please post the locale of the proposed structure, i.e. wind and seismic zones? Thanks in advance.

PS: I thought the GSA had switched from "get the most bldg for the buck" to "make it BLAST-RESISTANT at any cost"...? Guess not.