Frisbee locating device 1

[guzdorf]

I am trying to come up with something similar to the key finders that are commonly found in stores. They are the devices that you stick to something, like your keychain, then when you lose it you press a button on the related device that you hopefully haven't lost and your keys beep. The difference is I am looking to make something small enough to attach to a frisbee golf frisbee that is light and small enough in profile to not affect the flight characteristics. I would like to somehow embed it in the plastic. Then when you lose your frisbee you pull out this device, press a button and your frisbee beeps. If no one has any ideas maybe they could point me in the direction of an existing product small enough for me to adapt to this project.

 

[IRstuff]

Why can't you put it on the bottom side?

TTFN

 

[itsmoked]

It would probably be better, much less complicated and a whole lot cheaper to just put a beeper into the frisbee that beeps say 60 seconds after no motion. Then you don't lose the "other thingy" and don't have to pay for it and carry it.

 

[SolderingGunslinger]

What about an LED flasher. Have the flasher turn on after dark. If your Frisbee is lost, wait until sunset, then look for the flashing high intensity LED.

OTOH, you could imbed a tiny GPS engine along with a small transmitter which could transmit the exact location of your frisbee in the event that the toy hasn't just been lost, but purloined. Local Police would be called to find and frisk the fowl Frisbee filcher.

I guess I haven't purchased a Frisbee in some time. Are they so expensive that the loss of the original flying disc toy would be a financial burden to the owner or is an electronic Frisbee finder worth the extra weight and cost to the toy?

Hmmm, I suppose I might have a different attitude toward the device if it was for R/C model aircraft or "O" Scale model railroad.

I remain,

The Old Soldering Gunslinger

 

[jraef]

I think SG has a point in the above post. Even if you could do it "cheap", would it ever be cheaper than just buying another Frisbee? I doubt it.

With enough research you could build a very basic receiver and connect it to a piezo buzzer that could theoretically use the Frisbee itself as a sounding board to amplify the effect enough to be usefull in finding it. Then you would need to come up with a power source, possibly use a small solar cell and slow discharge capacitor to keep it alive long enough to find it in the deep bushes, yet avoid adding significant weight that might affect the Frisbee glide pattern. Then you would need to make it waterproof so that you don't kill it the first time it sails into the pond or surf. Then you would need to make sure the materials used were not toxic to dogs, since frisbees and dogs seem to go together.

In other words, entirely possible, not very practical. Fun idea to ponder however.

"Our virtues and our failings are inseparable, like force and matter. When they separate, man is no more."
Nikola Tesla

 

[Skogsgurra]

SG and jraef,

You seem to forget about the environment. I think that guzdorf is worried about the pollution that thousands of lost frisbees will cause in the imminent future if the lost-frisbee issue isn't addressed properly.

Let all good forces work together on this project! Now, where do we start?

Gunnar Englund

http://www.gke.org

 

[melone]

Please keep the condescending comments to yourself!!!

 

[sreid]

Hw about RFID technology? No batteries in the target. Cheap because it has to be.

 

[jraef]

Geez melone, lighten up. A thread starting off asking about electronically locating lost Frisbees cannot be taken too serious to begin with.

Sreid, how would you propose to make the RFID work? I must admit a lack of in-depth knowledge about RFID capabilities. From what I know it could tell you that it was a Frisbee, maybe even your Frisbee out of a host of other lost Frisbees in that briar patch, but it can't retransmit position can it? I suppose if you got a response at all it at least means it is within range, but if you are that close, you probably already found it anyway.

Hmmm... multiple RFID tranceivers tuned to look for a response from the same tag so the holders could triangulate? I see an opportunity to get into the Frisbee retrieval business, sending a small army of Frisbee Locating Agents (FLA's) out to parks and beaches every day to locate errant disks for a small fee. Given the rising popularity of Frisbee Golf, it might work. Now to just move ahead to the most important part of any new business venture, picking a cleaver name and logo...

 

[itsmoked]

SG is correct the reciever/batteries/annunciator/mounting;transmitter/case/batteries is going to cost 10X what a frisbee costs.

It don't add up.

Then if one is lost the hazardous battery material could leak and... kill a slug or sumtin.

:]

 

[Skogsgurra]

I have read guzdorf's OP once again.

I do not know if there is a big need for FDDs (Frisbee Detecting Devices). But if there is a real need - then it is an engineering challenge. The main problems seem to be power supply and weight.

The positive side of the problem is that the space seems to be there, and shock absorbing will probably be taken care of by the plastic material (still made out of soft plastics?)

Weight can be kept really low and the battery need not be a bulky C or D cell, a tiny coin cell will provide enough energy for a full day's hard frisbeeing. The transmitter should emit short "chirps" (or other unique coded signal) with a few seconds pause between each chirp. This will keep transmitter mean power consumption down.

The receiver can be a direction sensitive and code sensitive little device with an ear plug and it would not be a bad idea to install the whole thing in a band around your head (or a helmet) so it can be worn and used without hindering the main task at hand (which - I believe - is manipulating the pie rondelles).

I know that there has been some work done on similar devices that are used to locate golf balls. The need here is to find a ball that has gone astray and, knowing how much money there is in golf, it seems to be a perfectly sound use of technology. The same situation may be true in frisbeeing. I know that wellbeeing is big business nowadays - so, why not frisbeeing?


Gunnar Englund

http://www.gke.org

 

[jraef]

Gunnar, you genius. Of course, put the transmitter on the Frisbee and wear the receiver! I was thinking the other way around. Your way makes triangulation much more effective with only 2 receivers, very cost effective. And I like the head band idea, maybe even a cap with a small propeller on top for wind power replenishment of the receiver battery. And to supplement the Frisbee mounted device power, maybe an eccentric weight centrifugal generator like those on watches that don't need winding. The spinning of the disc is the prime mover for a tiny generator.

But what if there were multiple Frisbees in the park that day? Yours would still need to have some sort of ID system inherent to the disc otherwise you may be chasing someone elses Frisbee, and what a waste of time that would be. Still though, a simple coded FM signal would suffice. Of course, here in the US you might need to get an FCC license then to operate your Frisbee.

"Our virtues and our failings are inseparable, like force and matter. When they separate, man is no more."
Nikola Tesla

 

[itsmoked]

Frisbees have to weigh precisely some weight or you are deemed a cheater in most competetions!! How you gonna make the sucka zero grams?

 

[Skogsgurra]

jraef,

Thanks for the elevation to FDD genius! (Deep bow and all that). About the multiple Frisbees issue: I have solved that problem too! (Being an FDD genius makes such things easy) As I mentioned in my brilliant posting, I suggest that each transmitter shall "emit short 'chirps' (or other unique coded signal)" and that the receiver reacts only to transmitters with the right code.

There could also be a "hear-all master receiver" to make sure that no falsely coded Frisbees remain in the park after dark. The master receiver shall probably not be operated by anyone less than the Umpire.

There have been postings pointing out various problems like weight, FCC approval, but not yet the perils (causing blindness, cancer or losing your spine marrow) with radio frequency devices. To those less enterprising souls I say: There are no difficulties - only challenges!

Gunnar Englund

http://www.gke.org

 

[zeusfaber]

I'm still trying to work out why the Gunslinger might want one of these things for his O Gauge model railway.

For the frisbee, there's not much will beat a decent gundog.

A.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

smoked... simply replace some plastic with PCBs and chips. Same great weight, less filling...


Dan
Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[itsmoked]

Wellll..... okay.. but personally if I was gonna put electronics on a Frisbee I would add some accelerometers and controlled trim tabs so it went where I programmed it to go. No need for any "find it" stuff!

 

[Skogsgurra]

Now, smoked, if that isn't cheating...

Gunnar Englund

http://www.gke.org

 

[jraef]

Now, smoked, if that isn't cheating...

That's right, lets not get rediculously off track here ;-)

Back to the FDD design, here are a couple of choices for the head mounted receiver with auxiliary wind power generator attachment.

http://www.hatsinthebelfry.com/page/H/CTGY/party_hat

I prefer the "baseball cap" style on the right because it provides more room on the bill for a small solar cell as the primary power source. The good thing about having the aux wind generator is that on a cloudy day with no wind, you can still run around really fast in order to power your receiver.

Here is a similar solar cell on a head mounted system, albeit for a ifferent purpose. Still, in proves that it can be done.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0001Z9492/ref=nosim/24bestbuycom22-20/102-4950537-5508910

Here is a selection of very small transmitters that could probably be adapted for Frisbee use, although the enironmental issues may need to be adressed since in the industry these are normally used, nobody would care.

http://www.endoacustica.com/audio_surveillance.htm

 

[jsolar]

If you can afford an elaborate "finding" device, like at a disc golf club, you might try a diode. By selecting the lead length on a high frequency diode you can make a zero power transponder. With a lot of power and some directivity on a powered "finder" you would transmit an RF signal n a GHS ISR band. The diode will double the frequency with an extremely small but non zero power. Your "finder" detector would have directivity on the Rx antenna and you could home in on the Frisbee. The diode is very cheap and easy to install. You don't need directivity on both the Rx and Tx antenna, but it could help.
Best Regards,
John Solar