Engine designs that have problems 22

[enginesrus]

Since the one thread I started, is headed way off topic, reason for this.
Engine designs that have problems or have had them.
I'll start with the 3 valve Triton.
This guy explains. Has data from others that deal with the same problems.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcN_WcGr4BU

 

[JohnRBaker]

...apparently it's illegal to buy a camshaft bearing tool in California...

Please explain...

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[TugboatEng]

Prop 65

 

[JohnRBaker]

And exactly how does Prop 65 PREVENT you from buying a "camshaft bearing tool"?

https://www.p65warnings.ca.gov/

I've checked several online sources where camshaft bearing tools are sold and a couple of them mention a 'Prop 65 warning' and the best that I can see is that they might contain material which could cause cancer, but nowhere did I find anything that indicated that you couldn't actually buy one of these tool sets, just that you should be careful. BTW, they also warn you that you should wear safety glasses and avoid loose fitting close or open sandals when using the tool.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[TugboatEng]

If it doesn't have the label it can't be sold in California. Yes there are other options available but they have longer lead times/cost more. I went through this trying to get a fender for the truck. Driver's side can be bought in CA but passenger side cannot.

You don't take prop 65 warnings seriously, do you? They have to put the sticker on everything because it's impossible to prove that nothing causes cancer.

 

[JohnRBaker]

Are you sure that it's due to Prop 65?

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[TugboatEng]

Yes, I have dealt with this before. Other sites list prop 65 specifically. This is what Amazon says.

 

[JohnRBaker]

So in reality, Prop 65 only inconvenienced you, since it didn't actually PREVENT you from purchasing a camshaft bearing tool.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[TugboatEng]

It has prevented me from buying that fender I want. I'm going to have to ship it to a friend in Washington and then drive up there to get it.

 

[IRstuff]

Cherry picking and blaming Prop 65

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list

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[JohnRBaker]

Did you try to buy both fenders from the same company?

I would say it's not so much Prop 65 that's the problem as much as it is that some companies are simply ignoring it. It's just that Amazon has taken it upon itself to comply.

And for the record, Prop 65 was just that, a proposition which was voted on by the people of California. In fact, in 1986, the Prop 65 initiative passed with 67% of the vote. And before you ask, NO, I did NOT vote for Prop 65. The reason was because this was on the ballot during the time when I had been transferred back to Michigan, which spanned the period from January 1986 until July 1987.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[TugboatEng]

IR, that's a different tool. It's much more expensive as well.

John, prop 65 is ever evolving and recently a lot of changes have been made.

 

[SwinnyGG]

Now we're defending prop 65 in this thread, eh fellas? What a world

 

[enginesrus]

Yeah Prop 65 a true engineering disaster, maybe it needs its OWN THREAD ( does social "P" engineering fit anywhere on this site?)? How and why does any form of industry stay in that state, when there are so many more friendly states?

And thank you JohnRBaker, that is what I meant. Since the tapped hole is smaller it essentially added more material to that area, and also since the torque is lower on the smaller bolt there is less strain from that.
That engine block is typical of many, too many corners cut in the design phase. That almost looks like it was never tested, it would have shown up during durability testing. It sort of proves they didn't do the correct things during the testing phase, too much dependence on FEA and not the real world.

 

[SwinnyGG]

That engine block is typical of many, too many corners cut in the design phase. That almost looks like it was never tested, it would have shown up during durability testing. It sort of proves they didn't do the correct things during the testing phase, too much dependence on FEA and not the real world.

That engine first came to market in 1982. FEA did not exist, and the 'real' engineers you worship are the ones who put it out. So.

 

[JohnRBaker]

I think that it's quite possible that it was the result of an FEA analysis which led to the change in the bolt size, reducing it from 12mm to 10mm.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[TugboatEng]

I'd be curious to hear thoughts on the forces that cause the cracking. It's the only engine I know that does it despite similar designs.

It's a really good engine design if you have the right expectations of it. They're not the best engines for rebuilding because die catastrophically.

 

[IRstuff]

IR, that's a different tool. It's much more expensive as well.

Yes, but the photos are almost identical so a copy, at worst, and obviously shippable to California.

In any case, Prop 65 is THE "get of out lawsuit free" card for any product with a listed chemical. Given that you all are ostensibly business friendly, I'm not sure why you think Prop 65 is a bad idea. If I were a manufacturer, for a measly upfront investment of printing a Prop 65 warning, I indemnify myself from any lawsuit claiming harm from exposure to a listed chemical in my product; it's a great bargain for manufacturers and retailers. Indemnification from exposure lawsuits for over 900 chemicals; whoot!

Indeed, I would think even if you didn't think you needed the warning on your product, you should go ahead and put it on the end-product and protect yourself from any subcontractor twiddling their product chemistry without telling you.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list

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[TugboatEng]

So I have to pay $50 more for no damn reason because I live in California.

 

[IRstuff]

It's the same stuff, so nothing to do with California, per se; that's your chosen supplier being annoying. We can buy all sorts of stuff that's on the Prop 65 list without any issues, so don't rabble rouse unless you have proof. In fact, if the stuff on the list wasn't importable, you wouldn't see that warning every much, but every gas pump has that warning.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list

http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

 

[SwinnyGG]

If I were a manufacturer, for a measly upfront investment of printing a Prop 65 warning, I indemnify myself from any lawsuit claiming harm from exposure to a listed chemical in my product; it's a great bargain for manufacturers and retailers. Indemnification from exposure lawsuits for over 900 chemicals; whoot!

Uh.. not only does Prop 65 not indemnify a manufacturer from hazardous exposure lawsuits, it also creates an ecosystem of lawsuits specifically related to compliance with the idiotic measure itself. It's the rare law that is actually bad for everyone.