Department/Job definitions and obfuscation 2

[cpy911]

Hi Folks,

Can you help me with definitions of the following engineering department titles, and what the "industry standard" meanings might be? The industry is in Mechanical Design, Product Design/Consumer Products.

Product Development Engineering
(Product Development Engineer)

Applications Engineering
(Applications Engineer)

Sustaining Engineering
(Sustaining Engineer)

Project Engineering
(Project Engineer)

So, I ask because I had my 6 mos review for my new job and I might be misinformed somewhere. My job title of Product Development Engineer has me doing a lot of what I would call Sustaining Engineering (ECO's/ECN's, Implementing customer designs into our manufacturing system, making drawings of customer products for us to build, update customer drawings into our system, etc.) I was suprised that we design little here and the products we do "design" are basically specified by customers. This might require remodeling a customer design in our CAD system.

I believe I was hired for my design skills (Previous title was Mechanical Design Engineer). I am having trouble focusing on the "design" work that I have and supporting what could be 50 or more products where support issues come up on a daily basis and fire drills distract me from the design work. However, the company needs support issues taken care of and are top of the list above all else. I believe perhaps that taking care of the support issues and releasing an engineering change order to fix a problem is really what the job is...but I could be wrong.

They define Applications Engineering as doing the upfront design work and then pass the basically completed design to the Product Development Engineer to do the documentation and all the ECN's to get it released. This includes "controlling" customer drawings and acting as a project manager making sure at all costs the product is successful and on time. Is this product development?

So, can someone set me straight on what the true definitions are? I am trying to get an objective view on this.

I disagree with how the company is calling these job titles and would like to be set straight.

Thanks,
cpy911

 

[MikeHalloran]

I know of no standard for job titles. If one exists, it's widely ignored, and/or obsolete.

When I started, forty years ago, I had the impression that certain duties were associated with certain job titles, and that the association existed at most outfits.

Then the world changed.

It used to be customary for engineers to have designers, for the designers to have detailers, and for everyone to have
checkers. No more.

Now, engineers are expected to do their own designing and detailing, and because of the erroneous perception that computers are infallible, nobody has checkers.

It used to be customary for a company in any given business to do most of the engineering, design, and manufacturing associated with its product. No more.

Now, manufacturing is offshored, design is outsourced, and engineering is done after a disaster if at all. Many companies are so understaffed, by traditional standards, that I regard them as 'hollow'. Yours appears to be an example.

Worse maybe, most of today's workforce doesn't remember the old rules and roles, so responsibilities and titles don't necessarily correspond among companies, or even within a company. IOW, nobody today knows how to do anything 'right', or perhaps at all.

I'm guessing that in your outfit, you can probably have any title that you want, but no specific duties, and no authority, come with it. You'll have to butt heads with people who've already snatched up whatever little nuggets of 'power' they could, and persuade them to give up some to you, or find a new way to accrete it, as the company evolves (or devolves, depending on your perspective).

A hint: If 'fire drills' are a way of life there, and no one at the top perceives that as a problem and is trying to do something about it, there is nothing you can do to change it. Accept that, or look elsewhere.

Another hint: Elsewhere doesnt' look so good, either.





Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[IRstuff]

There are no "true" definitions. Each company is an island unto its own.

TTFN

Eng-Tips Policies FAQ731-376

 

[PSE]

This might be a source you can use. There is a link to the US Dept of Labor, "Dictionary of Occupational Titles".

http://www.occupationalinfo.org/

As previous posters indicate, it is likely rare that the requirements or duties of any position remain fixed. Every job description that went with a title in my career had some sort of catch all for other duties as apparent or assigned.

Regards,

 

[MDAPSEY]

Each company will seem to have different titles for the same job. Titles are basically as good as the paper they are written on. Its what the substance is behind the title that I focus on.

 

[tripleZ]

sounds like your in some field of manufacturing. My short experience says your title means nothing, especially with my industry in the US being as understaffed as it is. I was hired as a Product/Process engineer. Then we restructured. I was then deemed a Process engineer. Third restructuring and I'm a Process engineer & lean engineer. What does this all mean?

I still do the day to day process work and optimization. I still work with customers on a product standpoint, and help develop quoted jobs. And in some cases, I'm working as a liason between my company and the customer, suggesting new design options, etc. So in other words, I'm still doing the "process" engineering job, still doing the "product" engineering job, and am working more and more in an "applications" role. Titles really don't mean a heck of a lot to me in this field.

 

[Senselessticker]

My official title is "Engineer II".

In any given hour of the day depending on the particular project I may be:

Drafter
Designer
Engineer
Lead Engineer
Project Engineer
Project Manager

Each role is unique and demands very different responsibilities and skill sets. I've found the responsibity of Project Engineer is the most technically demanding. PMing is often very boring, but gets more attention (positive and negative) than any other role. I'm happy that I've been exposed to so many different aspects of engineering.

Getting back to my official title....well it means nothing. The weird part is PMing a job which requires "handing work" to my boss...

When I first began my career about 3 year ago I spent 90% of my time doing design and CAD. Now I spend about 10% of my time doing design, 10% of my time doing CAD (because we seem to have trouble keeping CAD operators around), 30% of my time in the field either gathering info or overseeing construction, and 50% of my time on the phone, doing paperwork, and in meetings. I enjoy wearing the differnt hats each day. Also, as my roles have changed, the company I work for has compensated me accordingly.

 

[keepinitcool]

As most people have said, titles don't mean so much these days, especially if you are at a small company. Things tend to get done if they are the things that need to get done.

Where I am, sustaining engineering doesn't do any drawing or design. They verify issues, document issues and fixes, and handle the required changes. Design engineering does almost all the required drawing, part selection, testing, etc... This is in addition to product design. And since engineering knows what they did, they typically do the EC documents.

 

[KENAT]

As most of the others say titles are largely meaningless from what I've seen.

A job needs doing and you're expected to do it.

For instance at my first job production/manufacturing engineers basically worked out how best to build the things the design office staff designed. They would raise requests for drawing changes etc when necessary but under no conditions were they allowed anywhere near the master drawing pack (although we used CAD signed print outs were the master).

In my new place manufacturing engineers do the majority of ECOs.

Title bears little releationship to what you actually do day to day. Even if you're in a big enough or well organized enough company that has some kind of defined job duties for each title/position, the days when you could say 'I'm not doing that it's not in my job description' are long gone for most of us.