Continuing Education for PE's 2

[jakin]

In some professions, continuing education (a minimum number of CEUs) is required to maintain one's license. Should this be extended to PEs?

 

[BJC]

It is, Two of the states I am registered require continuing education. Iowa has the most rigerous requirements.
Engineering seems to be backwards in the classes available. Some professions have conferences and classes in resort locations or even cruise ships. Engineers seem to have conferences in New York in Feburary.

 

[mshimko]

There are two considerations with such a requirement:

1. What's available
2. Value of what's available.

In my opinion only, there are a very limited number of courses out there for experienced engineers, and many of the options to obtain CEU seem to be more self-serving of some society than value to the engineer (such as participating in society meetings).

In other fields, such as education and accounting, there are many courses available to choose from.

I'm sure others will have differing opinions.

 

[metengr]

In general, either relevant CEU’s or some type of professional volunteer work (that can be documented which betters the engineering profession) are good for PE's.

The only negative I see out of all this is those of us that have a PE license must deal with having to pay for courses or attend meetings that are typically not applicable to your discipline, and frankly result in a self serving environment for consultants and technical organizations like local chapters of PE's.

When various Boards began adopting professional development hours, the consultants and local chapters of the PE society came out of the wood work and started to bombard me with all types of seminars and courses, etc. I don't know about you but the local chapter of the Professional Engineering Society charges double the fee that I pay for membership in my technical society. What I find most interesting is that you can rack up a high number of PDH's by simply attending a 2-day conference, with most presentations dealing with information that does not really affect my discipline.

 

[GregLocock]

I find this interesting. If I were a PE (I'm not) then surely I am supposed to be repsonsible enough to decide whether reading a book, or learning a new programming language, count as continuing education?

I certainly agree with the cynicism in this thread - the main people who gain from a compulsory number of hours per year are the training providers, and since the only ones who can give accreditation under this scheme are the PE organisations themselves, it becomes a lurk.

FWIW, if I spend less than 2 hours a week learning new stuff I get bored. Does learning about the design of rocket boosters help my cars steer better? No. Does someone who can learn how to design rocket boosters, from interest, design better suspensions? Yes.



Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[BobPE]

GregLocock:

What other organization would be suited to give accreditation? I don't really see any group that understands engineering and the needs of continuing education other than PE's. I have been involved in course review and have seen a lot of groups attempt accreditation, but fail, and rightly so. they attempt to apply courses like those applied to loftier careers, like teachers. From my experience, there are very few out there that understand what we do and what our needs are....

I agree with you though, I learn at every chance I get from management to particle theory as applied to light. I personally look at coninuing education for PE's as an additional TAX that will only turn more away from the profession. That is the last thing PE's need right now is another reason not to be a PE.

Bob

 

[Maui]

What I find aggravating in New York is that the state lawmakers wrote the rules for the continuing education requirements for PEs. But they exempted the state employees from these same requirements! So if you are PE employeed by New York State, you do not have to earn any continuing education credits. I would think that the state employees would be the ones to set the example, but like Congress they are able to write their own rules and force everyone else to live by a different set of requirements.

Maui

 

[toiap]

Only New York State employees that are covered by a union contract are exempt from the CEU requirements. I agree that it is not fair, but I do not believe the exemption covers many PE's.

 

[Maui]

Toiap, it was my understanding that PEs that worked full time for the state were required to become union members. Is this incorrect?

Maui

 

[toiap]

I work for a state authority, have a PE and am in management. We do not have any requirements that require PEs to be in the union. I cannot speak for other agencies or authorities in New York.

 

[IRstuff]

For some DUMAS reason, engineers are the ONLY profession that hasn't figured out how to get a decent cruise AND CEUs simultaneously ;-)

Speaks very poorly of our collective brainpower compared to MDs.

TTFN

 

[BJC]

IRstuff
The main squeeze gets mail all the time on things like a cruise from San Diego to Accapulco. Classes in the morning, fun in the afternoon. The accountants figure it out so most of it is deductable.
I have seen ones for conferences in Stateline during ski season and in Hawaii ( anytime of the year is good there).
They also work it out so an extra person (me) is bascially charged for eats and washing a few extra towels.
I just got a notice for an engineering seminar in Milwaukee next November.
There is a minimum you have to spend on CEs get a tax deduction, you don't get it going to vendors seminars at the local Holiday Inn.

 

[EddyC]

I think that the New York State employees wanted the state to pay for the continuing education, but the state refused. So they compromised and got exempted.

 

[metengr]

State politics, ya gotta love it!!

 

[BigH]

This whole topic has been on my "love to kick them in the mouth" list for years. There is no question that the people really pushing the CEUs etc are those that either can given them and those that sponsor them - and in all cases it is money money money that is the motivator. Why do you think that an "invention" is worth so many credits?, lectures or presenations some; published papers more - but look at how many publications are really from practictioners - almost always filled now by academics who have the publish or perish sword hanging over them.
My big problem is that, whilst I am registered in a US state and in a Canadian province, I have been working overseas for the last 10 years. Where do I go for CEUs in Urumqi China? In Vientianne Laos? in Georgetown Guyana? in Harare Zimbabwe? Even here in India where the top US schools are fallbacks to those who don't get in the IITs. Yes, I can attend conferences here, give papers at these, publish here and be an invited lecturer at an IIT - but do these meet the criteria of CEUs in US? Doubtful. I think this is all a big sham - some feel goods to show that engineering is doing something after a few failures.
and thanks for being able to vent.