Where to start - Van Diemen Formula Ford 1

[Avgas]

Gooday Folks,

I came across this good site through Google about a week ago and have been reading past threads/posts with great interest. My objective here is to garner expert advice about chassis setup without having to pay for it. I'm new to this forum and if I'm on the wrong track about this, please advise - politely.

Cut to the chase -

1993 Van Diemen FF, Kent engine, mono-shock front, Penske 8160s I think. I'm the chief engineer, pit crew, the lot. The boy drives it. I try to fix it. I know some stuff, but nowhere near enough. We've raced one season, 2008, came 11th out of some 24 competitors in the championship. Entered 5 rounds out of 7, got taken out of 2, scored points in 3, and still ended up 11th! You can see the competition's not too tough - lucky for us.

Where to start? That's the main question. I've replaced all worn rod ends and rigged the car straight, as best as I can, and I'm following notes from previous successful owners as to setup of steering geometry and wheel alignments. The car seems to handle reasonably well according to the driver, but I'd like to know more. A lot more. I'm hoping you guys might assist.

So here's the question - assuming all is straight and working well, where should I start looking first to start fine tuning? Ride Height? Rake? Spring rates? Anti roll bars? Where would you suggest? BTW, we seem to have tyre pressures predictably under control at this time.

I'd like to undertake some serious testing this year and I'd rather use sound theory as my guide than boy-racer-scuttlebut, paddock here-say and take-a-guess-trial-and-error.

Any respectable suggestions would be welcomed and deeply appreciated.

Many thanks in anticipation.

 

[patprimmer]

Have you contacted Harry Galloway or Steve Knott.

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers for professional engineers

 

[evelrod]

Starting from scratch? Hmmmm. It's 'gonna be a season of "chasing your tail"...One season, if you lucky...If not, ???

It may seem a bit basic for an engineer, but contacting a professional, a shop that is acknowledged for their winning cars (as difficult as that may be) is a start.
Getting to basics by buying every book on chassis tuning and race car setup is a must...Carrol Smith, Fred Puhn, et al.

I have spent many years learning "short cuts" and it would be impossible for me to put them into words...It's just something I am able to "do"!

There is the old axiom...An infinitely adjustable chassis is always in need of adjustment.

Interesting that you state that you have the "tyre pressure predictably under control..." That is one of the things that I have never had "under control" in over fifty years of racing. ;-)

Rod

 

[murpia]

The best place to start will be to calculate the effect on roll couple distribution of your springs and bars.

For example, you might find that one step stiffer in spring rate at the front = +1.5% front roll couple, yet one step in front bar = +5.0% front roll couple.

That way you can accurately evaluate setup trade-offs, such as softening all the wheel rates for grip, vs. stiffening them for response, while having confidence you aren't changing roll couple as well without realising it.

Regards, Ian

 

[shanba]

You didn't mention where you are racing. UK, USA, Canada and Australia, among others, all have slightly different packages, especially tires and shocks. Have you had the shocks dyno'd? Shock guys can be informative with set-up issues and tell you a range of spring rates the shocks are good for. Also, you're tire support people can be very helpful.

 

[patprimmer]

For some reason I thought he was from Australia, that's why I mentioned the Australian agent for Van Diemen by name.

The OP has not logged in since the day he posted

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers for professional engineers

 

[Avgas]

Hi folks I'm back. Sorry, I've been away.

Very many thanks for your input.

Yes, we race in Australia.

Books are a great idea, I have been looking, except up until now I couldn't find anything other than very simple stuff. The good news is that through references found on this site I have stumbled onto what I believe to be the ultimate starting point - Miliken and Miliken!

These guys seem to be talking the talk that I'll understand. Especially seeing as they apparently come from aeronautics too. An analysis of automotive physics is definitely the right place to start. I must get their book, Racing Car Dynamics, SAE I believe. I shall order it immediately.

With regards our tyre pressures. We've learnt a lot over previous years from karting and with the Avon control tyre used in FF there isn't much leeway in it. It's a good tyre for what it does - sprint races - yet gives relatively good life for those of us on a budget. Old tyres (within reason) give performance equal or better than new tyres. Cold pressures from 14-16 psi (OEM recommended is 15 psi) end up about 18-19 psi when hot. Anything higher than 19 is only good for wet weather. So there's not a lot in it except figuring out when you want the best performance - early in the race or late in the race. They stay good for about 5 laps after stabilising temp and then tend to go away. It's up to you to evaluate when you want them at their peak for tactical purposes.

BTW, I can't really complete a profile for this site, it wouldn't be considered proper by my employer. Suffice to say that I presently work in aeronautics in the role of writing and editing technical manuals for military helicopters. It would be imprudent for me to be more specific than that.

Anyway very many thanks fellas.

I shall drop in and read more from time to time. Take care all and I'll let you know how we progress through the year.

 

[DSD1]

Hi Avgas,
I am new to this forum but I have a Van Diemen RF93 1600 kent and I have all of the factory run team specs for the car.
I can fax you the details or email them to you if you can contact me.