Is it OK to use a 240V connector body on a 480V line? 5

[FreddyZ]

I had the occasion recently to work with a 480V circuit. For a temporary hookup in a University environment, a prior visitor had installed a 240V 20A 3ph +ground female connector body [L15-20] on the 480V cord, which is switched at a fuse/ switch box nearby- perhaps 20 ft of cable. The unit tested draws only perhaps 5 amps. I changed the connector body to the proper L16-20 unit for 480V service, but then had to make an adapter in order to connect the cable into the facility's equipment for a very temporary and closely supervised test.

I was later instructed by my supervisor that the L16-20 connector body must be replaced with the incorrect but formerly installed 240V L15-20 connector body, so that the plug would be left interchangeable with the facility's equipment.

Under duress, this change was made, and the connector body and cable were annotated "480VAC". The facility operator was informed that I found this improper setup disturbing, because sooner or later someone is going to come along and plug a 240V machine into that L15 plug and apply 480V to it, resulting in damage and/or perhaps injury or death. I feel that this situation puts my company and myself at risk for liability for any such damage arising from this situation.

Because of personal interactions with my supervisors, who were present, I cannot bring up this issue with them. In fact, the whole company is not very receptive to constructive criticism.

What say you electrical experts?
No worries, it's a controlled environment?
Send a report to OSHA?
Report it to higher-ups in the company?

There are other safety issues in this environment too, but this seems the most egregious violation.

 

[wayne440]

The answer to all of your questions depend on your answer to this one- Do you have another place of employment lined up if (when) you are let go from your present one? In many instances reporting to OSHA or "higher-ups" is the beginning of the end, notwithstanding the legalities involved.

 

[SceneryDriver]

The simple answer to your question is NO. IT IS NOT OK.

I cannot imagine why this isn't being corrected. Is someone being a stubborn moron, or do the bean counters think it will cost too much to retrofit the correct plugs? Let them know new plugs will cost less then the eventual electrical fire that will result.

Also let those involved that if an accident does happen, they may be liable for criminal negligence, as they knew of an unsafe situation and did nothing to correct it.

You are correct that eventually, someone will plug in a 240v load, and hopefully, the only thing that will happen is that the circuit protection will activate. We have different physical, incompatible plug types for different voltages for a reason. If this is a university environment, consider reporting it to health and safety. I'm sure they will have something to say about it.

Consider looking for a new job anyway. Do you really want to work for a bunch of people who:
A) Don't consider this a safety hazard.
B) Refuse to be talked to about this.

I'm sure there's more to this situation than the initial description. Please report back what happens.


-SceneryDriver

 

[itsmoked]

It's sad this idiocy happens. I was somewhere a couple of months ago where they had pigtails hanging from the ceiling with 240V twist-locs wired to 460. I had a 240 motor wired to a matching plug I needed to spin test. When I plugged it in the motor made horrendous noises like it was filled with BBs or something. I promptly tried to unplug it and it welded the prongs in the plug to the receptacle slides then blew the breaker that was 200ft away after filling the huge machine room with an angry hum. It was a most enjoyable experience.

So I can confirm someone will use that outlet sooner or later.

If you can't effectively reason with the responsible party based on the blatant safety hazard and the resulting liability both safety AND fire then you should seriously look for employment elsewhere, (while still employed of course). Once alternate employment is found write a letter to the administration explaining why you left who's responsible, who you spoke to, and who ordered you to return things to a hazardous state.

Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[jraef]

Here is another twist.

I recently went to an OSHA presentation where this very issue came up.

WHEN someone gets hurt by this, and it WILL happen eventually, OSHA will get involved. If they do a thorough investigation and discover that YOU did it, they will want to know why. If you divulge that you had wanted to fix it correctly but was told to put it back to it's previous unsafe state, the supervisor who told you to do that can be held CRIMINALLY responsible, fined and JAILED by OSHA! They will not go after you as the worker (unless you purger yourself to try to defend one of those idiots). But they will question you with regards to your actions and if you come clean, they can and often will pursue the supervisors involved. And as of a couple of years ago, they are NO LONGER immune just because there is some vague corporate policy. OSHA requires them as supervisors to KNOW the rules, OBEY the rules, and ENFORCE the rules. Now it is a CRIME to not do so. There are of course no OSHA police, but there ARE prosecutors.

Then once the OSHA prosecutors get involved, the shark feeding frenzy begins (if it hadn't already)... Once that happens, a LOT of your personal time will get eaten up either defending yourself, or giving affidavits and/or testimony. It's a royal PITA.



"Dear future generations: Please accept our apologies. We were rolling drunk on petroleum."
— Kilgore Trout (via Kurt Vonnegut)
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[dpc]

Agree with the others - this not acceptable. If you have a Health and Safety Department in your company, you need to submit something in writing to them and keep a copy.

Then start looking for a new job. It's unfortunate, but this is not something where you can be a "team player" and go along with acceptance of the hazard.

 

[DRWeig]

One more vote with dpc and the others. This is worse than knowing that your boss is taking kickbacks from suppliers. That would be a moral dilemma, pitting your principles against considering all the ramifications of turning him in.

This case is safety. Somebody might get hurt. Somebody might get more than hurt.

Best to you,

Goober Dave

Haven't see the forum policies? Do so now: Forum Policies

 

[TheBlacksmith]

The fact that you know better, but are here asking us if it's okay to turn your back is kind of disturbing to me.

 

[cranky108]

I myself like having moral support for what I know is right. Sometimes it is difficult for young engineers to go agenst the grain.

 

[wroggent]

I don't have any experience with these connectors so I looked at pictures to try to see the difference. It looks like on either connector, one of the prongs is smaller than all of the others, but the prong which has been made smaller is different - with respect to the location of the ground prong. Can someone clarify for me - are these connectors physically compatible? It looks either male connector would only fit in the wrong female connector if you really tried to jam it in there.

 

[DRWeig]

Yes, wroggent. 480V connectors and 240V connectors are not compatible. You can't plug one into the other without first trimming a prong or two. It might be possible to ram them together, but I'm not strong enough to do it.

The case in question can happen when the installer of a 480V piece of equipment runs to the Home Depot and finds that they only have 240V plugs and receptacles. So, he snips the 480V plug off the plug-in equipment and puts his new 240V plug on. Then he wires the 240V receptacle to the incoming 480V circuit. We don't know how the OP's installation got to be like it is, so that's just a hypothetical scenario I just mentioned.

The danger is that the receptacle now says 240V on it. Somebody could come along with a 240V tool, maybe an air compressor or something, and plug it in without knowing that the supply is really 480V.



Best to you,

Goober Dave

Haven't see the forum policies? Do so now: Forum Policies

 

[PHovnanian]

How did the facilities 480V equipment end up with a 240V plug? Probably a dual voltage device that got switched to 480V but the person doing the work couldn't be bothered to put on the correct plug.

Next time, leave the 480V receptacle (female end) and swap out the appliance plug with one of the proper rating/configuration.

There's a chance the equipment gets moved to other locations (all equipped with incorrect receptacles). But maybe not. And when you left the job site, everything worked correctly. And now you've created some more (billable) work when the equipment gets relocated and won't plug in. ;-)

 

[FreddyZ]

How did the facilities' 480V equipment end up with a 240V plug?
==============
I suspect my supervisor did that, to use the 480 thru the University's equipment w/o changing the University's cord ends.


the person doing the work couldn't be bothered to put on the correct plug.
===============
Oh, no, we HAVE enough of all these type plugs. That's not the issue. The issue is an "engineer" who thinks it's OK to leave an L15-20 connector body on a 480V cord.

Next time, leave the 480V receptacle (female end) and swap out the appliance plug with one of the proper rating/configuration.
============
I did that. I made an adapter WE can use to go from the proper 480V L16-20 connector body to the facility's L15-20 system. I was told in no uncertain terms to change that back, and NOT TO USE ADAPTERS ANYMORE. This is my direct supervisor.

The problem being, I cannot go to -his- supervisor ("S") with my concerns, and if I go higher up I fear that I will be shown the door. Then I lose my house and toys and all that. It's a hostile work environment. There is not one person in the company I would feel comfortable relating my concerns to. Until I have a job waiting.

"S" told me at that time to not bother taping the power and such cords to the floor. I was doing so because my wife tripped on a cord in her workplace and tore the rotator cuff in her shoulder, took almost a year to get back right, including about 6 months off work. I am the engineer who is the main schlepper/ worker and will be carrying parts and equipment over this cord for the entire week. It literally requires under 1 minute to tape 3 ft of cord down.... yet I get told not to bother, and chastised when I continue anyhow, after relating the reason why it is important.

Unfortunately, this job has some really great aspects as far as career satisfaction, and there is just nothing else engineering-wise available in the area... and I am deeply entrenched and to move would be quite a task.

 

[wayne440]

Ideally, you would point out why this is wrong and get the go ahead to do it properly, but obviously yours is a far from ideal situation. Sadly, it is also typical of many workplaces, the mindset being that supervisors do not make mistakes, and those who think otherwise are clearly not team players.

To me your choices are (a) live with the situation, assuming that the "great aspects" and monetary compensation outweigh the faults of the job, namely working in an environment where standards and safety are secondary to economy and expediency. (b)dig your heels in, state that if you are going to do the work that it will be done as you see fit, and hope that doing so does not result in your being told to draw your pay and depart the premises.

I'll take the liberty of guessing that you will go with (a), until a better job becomes available.

 

[itsmoked]

Here's your solution. It's a bit out of the ordinary but that makes it more exciting.

Find out who the insurance carrier is for your place. They will be responsible for underwriting the fire AND personal liability of your organization. If it's a place like a university they will be VERY touchy about anything that can whip up a major liability like an electrocution or a fire in a multimillion dollar facility. Their entire focus is on "loss prevention" as that is where they make their money.

On a day off visit with them or their local representative. You don't need to tell them your name. Give them a false name, you can explain why you're using a false name - they will understand. That will even get their attention more focused.

Ask to speak with an accident investigator or a risk manager. Sit down and discuss with them your situation. Tell them about each thing you've seen - the wiring insanity, taping cords, etc. Request/suggest that they do a "facility inspection". Impress upon them that they not just "find" your issues but that they find several others before they find the issues you described.

They'll schedule a "loss prevention" inspection with your organization and do their thing. It will result in a list of things that "have to be addressed". Failure to correct the issues will result in a policy cancellation. This is serious stuff and will be given to your organization's administration. That will get things corrected and possibly even get some heads to roll, all while you remain back in the shadowy catacombs.

This will help your institution be a safer place.

Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[DRWeig]

Nice, Keith.

Best to you,

Goober Dave

Haven't see the forum policies? Do so now: Forum Policies

 

[MikeHalloran]

Another star for ItSmoked.

The technical guys at insurance companies are smart and rather fun to talk to.

Do use a false name and tell them why.

Don't tell any of your coworkers about your plan.


Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA