Gates of Hell

[hokie66]

This seems like a terrible waste of a resource. But perhaps not surprising, considering the location.

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/turkmenistan-gates-of-hell-darvaza-crater-intl-hnk/index.html

 

[dik]

Stopping the fire will save CO₂ emissions at the cost of releasing methane(CH₄)... a worse greenhouse gas. I don't know what the solution(s) is.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[3DDave]

It might be done with a dome over the 250 foot span to choke off the flow of oxygen and capture the flow of gas, but it's in a place where building that is a problem. One might manage to use a fabric structure over a frame if a suitable blanketing gas could be used instead of suffocation to cut the production of heat; perhaps the heat released isn't enough to damage a high-temp resistant fabric before it goes out. Once extinguished the gas can be captured in the dome, compressed and sold. I've seen the military use of pressurized bladders to support large tent structures; perhaps that could be used and avoid needing to built metal frames. It doesn't need to have a high arch to it, unlike stadium domes there's no crowd or sportsball needing clearance.

Access and price are the real limitations on this. I think the technology to do this isn't out of reach. The politics might be out of reach and the ROI is not promising. It's not as if money isn't available, but it depends on the willingness to do so:

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/13/asia/turkmenistan-dog-statue-intl-hnk-scli/index.html

This article say 19 foot (I only count 4) which I expect is how tall it is, rather than nose to tail??

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-54894828

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.2524901,58.4395872,96m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-59920221

(biologist goes to the bottom of the crater)

 

[1503-44]

Nuke it.

 

[LittleInch]

In Azerbaijan they revere these things - Land of the eternal fire...

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/yanar-dag-azerbaijan-land-of-fire/index.html

There are rumours that they had to pipe gas in once they started drilling and extracting it but that may have been the temple.

Letting it burn is much better than letting it leak methane which is a more powerful greenhouse gas, but miniscule in the amount of gas extracted by Turkmenistan.

That country (Turkmenistan) is a work of art though - run by a complete lunatic and one of the scariest places I've even been in terms of security and monitoring of everyone.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[bimr]

Nuke it.

Russia has already done this. I learned of this when I was in Orenburg Russia for a project.

"Peaceful Nuclear Explosions for the National Economy", also referred to as "Program 7", involved testing of industrial nuclear charges for use in peaceful activities. Nuclear detonations were conducted with the stated purpose of searching for useful mineral resources with reflection seismology, breaking up ore bodies, stimulating the production of oil and gas, and forming underground cavities for storing the recovered oil and gas. The "Program" numbers come from the USSR's classification system of nuclear explosions, the first five programs designating various phases of nuclear weapon development.

Program 7 conducted 115 nuclear explosions. Among them:

39 explosions for the purpose of geological exploration (trying to find new natural gas deposits by studying seismic waves produced by small nuclear explosions)
25 explosions for intensification of oil and gas debits
22 explosions for creating underground storage for natural gas
5 explosions for extinguishing large natural gas fountains
4 explosions for creating channels and dams (including the Chagan test in Kazakhstan, and the Taiga test on the potential route of the Pechora–Kama Canal)
2 explosions for crushing ore in open-pit mines
2 explosions for creating underground storage for toxic wastes
1 explosion to facilitate coal mining in an underground mine
19 explosions were performed for research purposes (studying possible migration of the radioactivity from the place of the explosions).

Link


Link

 

[1503-44]

Right. For once I was not making my usual poor attempt at injecting a bit of misplaced humor.

A little nuclear fracking might be just the thing.

 

[coloeng]

The US did that in western Colorado to see if they could get better access to natural gas. It was the Rulison Project.

 

[3DDave]

While I like nukes as much as the next person, the gas is already readily available - too available. A nuke will make it excessively available.

 

[TigerGuy]

Nuclear detonations are banned at the surface. So, they'll need to bury it deep enough under the crater to meet those restrictions. The explosion will probably create the largest fireball mankind has ever seen. Then there will be smoking chunks of sand and rock raining down on ... the vacant desert, for miles around. It could also fracture the underlying rock into the main body of that gas deposit, and we'll have a new land of the midnight sun.

On a more serious note, how do you choke off the oxygen that is available in the surrounding soils? Deep sheet piling, all the way around the crater?

 

[bimr]

Nuclear detonations are banned at the surface. So, they'll need to bury it deep enough under the crater to meet those restrictions. The explosion will probably create the largest fireball mankind has ever seen. Then there will be smoking chunks of sand and rock raining down on ... the vacant desert, for miles around. It could also fracture the underlying rock into the main body of that gas deposit, and we'll have a new land of the midnight sun.

On a more serious note, how do you choke off the oxygen that is available in the surrounding soils? Deep sheet bigsmile piling, all the way around the crater?

The Russians have already done this. The next step would be to research what the Russians did.

 

[3DDave]

It isn't necessary to choke oxygen out of the soil - I think the overlying surface was impermeable to the methane, which allowed it to accumulate in the first place. Then someone made a hole in that cover and it's gone downhill from there. It's clear the gas isn't mixed with oxygen before it escapes from the sand. Otherwise the flame front would be tight to the surface.

 

[TigerGuy]

I'm not familiar with the site soils, so cannot address how much subsurface oxygen is available. That was the basis of my question. I presume it's a sandy soil, with low moisture, and therefore has a fair amount of air in the void space.

I will be interested in seeing how they plan to cap a 70-meter wide opening in the ground surface and try to extinguish the flames. I'm sure a number of people have contemplated it over the last 65+years

 

[bimr]

It is interesting to look at the google earth image as there is quite a lot of strange excavation around the site. There is also an image along the nearby road with a mini cooper showing some water impoundments as well as a second crater near the gates of hell crater:

 

[1503-44]

Subsurface natural O2 is only found within a few meters of the surface. A lot of O2 is needed to support continued combustion and it is simply not available underground. As far as I know, free O2, if found in a well gas streams, is the result of pumping it into the well casing, having been drawn in from atmosphere sources.

The object of an explosion should be to collapse the faults and fissures supplying the gas from the underground reservoirs below. If the reservoir is close to the surface, that may preclude pinching off the supply and instead, possibly exposing more of the reservoir, thereby increasing the gas flow to the surface. The geology of the site may not be conducive to nuking.

Market it to tourism and plant carbon offsetting tree forests, and/or finance a sequestered carbon project until its net green.