2 Seperate Questions - Dongles & UCS in Software.....

Right, I wonder if anyone can help me out with two things that have been nagging me for ages:-

1) My employers over the years have baught 7 or 8 dongles (copy protection blocks)for an obscure CAD package which has steadily become seriously out of date. Each dongle cost roughly £4000 UK pounds (or more for the ones with CNC functionality).

They are thinking of possibly changing software to something else like Acad LT2002 and the new Autodesk series or something likewise for 3D work. There is now only 3 and a half of us in the Drawing Office now and the spare dongles are dead money.

What happens to these dongles? can they be sold or baught back by the software sellers?. If they do change, thats one heck of a lot of money to throw away!. If they manage to sell/return only two dongles they could pay for the companies new software!. Whats the situation with stuff like this ???. Its only a small firm, so this size of loss is unbearable - but the future of the company could be at stake longterm if a change is not made............are they stuck without a paddle?


2)I sometimes use a friends mechanical desktop software, and I really like it. He recently got an Inventor demo and gave me this trial to have a look at. We do a lot of complex surfacing and blocks with compound angle faces on at work, and mechanical desktop is excellent at this because you can tell Autocad to rotate the UCS in say 15 degrees in 'x' -62.5 in 'Y' and 10 degrees in Z, create a sketch plane/work plane upon this UCS. Also there is 3 point UCS etc face UCS and feature UCS, move ucs to wherever etc etc. But the rotation is the best and easiest way I have ever seen of achieving these tasks.

I have tried stuff like Solidworks2000, Solid Edge, Inventor etc briefly and I cant figure out how I would be able to draw a feature at a compound angle (like MDT) without possibly taper extruding etc which would be a right pain. Its all about adding features and sketching on faces that already exist!!!.

Also there is no history based/hybrid surfacing/solids in these packages and the drafting side is really 'strange' and poor even in comparison to AcadLT2002. So if we got Solidx or Inventor or something like this, I think we would be struggling.

We will not be moving to 3D for all design work, just jobs that really require it - AcadLT would be a vast improvement to what we run now and its excellent as a 2d package....

This is where MDT/Mechanical/Acad2002/Inventor combo would come in........I dont think you can loose with all these tools at your disposal, but say I draw 80% of something in Inventor and then decide I need a compound angle block and a complex surface attatched to the solid block...how would I do this?. If I go into MDT and do it and export it, Inventor would loose the history features and associativity of the surface wouldnt it?? and MDT cant open Inventor parts!. However once the design is done, the guys on LT2d can add the feature into thier 2d designs seamlessly which sounds good and I can open thiers and we would now have access tyo thousands of pre-drawn 2d&3d parts for free plus we would be 'All singing from the same hymn sheet' if you will, rather than import/export between manufacturers.

So..... how do you do stuff like those above in 'block build' cad softwares?. And call me old fashioned, but I like to type in the lenths of line Im drawing whilst I construct designs(2d or 3D!). These 'new' softwares you draw a line willy-nilly and you have to dimension it/constrain it *after* to get the length you want or angle you want as you cant just type it in first!!!!! hours wasted if you dont need to!....

Whats the deal here fella's ???. Stuff like "Solidworks/proE is the alltime Best Software, blah blah" will probably not help me much here. This is just in general.

So, Dongles and Compound construction and asociative surfaces..............

Thanks for your reading patience too .

Sirius.

 

[cbarn24050]

Hi, you are very unlikely to get much for your old software as you say it is now very out of date the dongle in itself is worthless as it is just a key.

 

[Adrian2]

Dear Sirius;

I am not sure I can help with your dongles, but I can comment on your AutoCad software selection. Your decision to consider MDT for its surfacing capabilities is a good one. I have used Desktop for three years and recently was required to learn Solidworks. Both Solidworks and Inventor do not have the surfacing capabilities of MDT. These packages however do outperform MDT in their ease of use in basic solid modelling. I particularily like the stability and dependability of solidworks. I'm told think3d is also becoming a popular choice.

I am not convinced however that work planes cannot be set up in solidworks, that do what you require. I suggest you repost your suggestion in the solidworks forum where experts more capable than I will sort that one out.

Since you still require 2D drafting, MDT is really the only package which will support that because you can still work in plain old autocad within it. If theres one thing you should be mindful of is desktop's inherent instability. Despite having applied all necessary service packs and followed my VAR's advice to the letter, MDT can be expected to give fatal errors the day before the drop-dead date on the current project. I know autodesk has lost some pretty big customers because of this. Its also the reason I feel why MDT will eventually be phased out. Its a good bet that autodesk will have to bring inventor up to scratch on surfacing in a leter edition.

So long as you have a good dealer, who supports you through all the system crashes, you will probably do fine with MDT, I can reccomend one, if you want. A good dealer who will fix your problems right away is worth all the money for the software.

Hope this helps

Adrian

 

[Sirius]

Cheers Adrian.

Unfortuanately the decision is not in my hands upon purchasing - even though I am currently the only person in the factory who knows anything about 'new' cad software (ie modellers!).
This situation has been in limbo or ages now and there is constant reluctance to even contemplate a change, but they dont understand the potential and new ways of working since they have only ever seen the package we use in the last 7 years! and it hasnt moved on much from DOS on the draughting/sufacing side!.
What a leap!. The other guys in the office are probably on countdown to retirement in five/six years so they may not want to change now.......

I really enjoy MDT and I really 'fitted into the mindset' of the package instantly having used autocad at college etc previously. Every time I come around here though everyone slates it and says to avoid it - but I reckon it beats a whole stack of other products hands down.

I really like the Inventor package though for the way it handles sheet metal design etc and working whilst in rendered mode and perspective etc but there is just something 'lacking' for me in Solidx/Edge/Inventor etc etc in 'basic' design practices and construction. As you say, these others are extremely poor at surfacing etc and thats what I have always assumed. I whish I could input values into these 'new packages'like I can in MDT too.

If I was a software engineer with a good few ££££'s to develop a program for Autodesk, I would simplify MDT slightly, keep the 'normal' autocad base for drafting etc, add the sheetmetal etc way of working of Inventor into it.

A sort of cross breed between the two......There is no mid ground between dedicated 'block featured' solid modellers and a good parametric surfacer and draughter yet from Autodesk or similar. I wish they hadnt swung too far with Inventor, and used the money to develop Desktop into a hybrid of the two - perhaps even with a switch mode for 'new' users and experienced Autodesk users so everyones happy, it cant be that hard to achieve.

If we did go with Autodesk Inventor or whatever, we would have to hope they make some radical improvements to the drafting and surfacing end in the future.....and Solidworks seems to be all 'add ons' after 'add ons' for every bloody thing you can think of!. Mouse clicks and Speed is not always the bottom line.

How can anyone compare getting a standard singular Solidworks type package and having to then buy 'add ons' all the time to Autodesks new 5.3 Series where you get all MDT, Acad2002,Inventor and possibly Mechanical with full surfacing, modelling, sheetmetal, drawing, use of legacy data and communication to 'poorer' copmpanies like ours etc etc for roughly the same money. It doent make sense not to does it?.

Anyway, I am going to post some questions in the different forums about compound angles/surfacing etc like you suggested.

As for the dongles, it looks as though we're goosed!. The thought of this loss of money is hindering future developments and could eventually cause us to loose a competitive edge in design work in the next couple of years. They are still managing to sell seats of this software to unsuspecting companies who dont know its pitfalls, so there must be some value in them.

You can only hide away for so long.........perhaps another job should be seeked for me before it gets too late..............


Sirius.